Blackgrass control using grass ley

[franklin]

Grass is brill.

It's even better under the current regime as you can establish it cleaply and use it for EFA fallow; top the stuff as and when it grows; then mole it / drain it / cake it with turds / slop on the fert and either cut it for silage or get some sheep on it.

Otherwise, needs a dairy farmer nearby to pay you for the silage really. If I was able to get £40 a cut, and keep the BPS, then it could stay grass for 100 years.

 

[Chalky]

Ditto above.

We have 90ha in on heavy land Ancholme Carr for a local AD plant. They like the silage, money is good & the land is back to doing what it always did best! May push for more up by the Humber where currently Rye that they cannot seem to get on with, longer lead but the land will benefit. Saw Bg in the first spring-ever since not had a look in. Forget anyone who tells you a 'variety can compete'- you need a species that can compete!

 

[ollie989898]

-Yes
-two years is fine, any longer and you'll get bigger problems with frit fly/leather jackets etc. You really don't want to be spraying Dursban and wipe out all your worms and other beneficial soil creatures
-ask Great in Grass
-yes, it cleans up BG a treat
-definitely go straight in with zero till. We tried min-till for a couple of years and we ended up with tussocks of ryegrass roots all over the place and buried BG seeds appeared as if from nowhere. If putting wheat in behind the grass, double your normal seed-rate would be my advice, it helps counter any seed loss to earthy grubs. We've cut some winter beans in this year behind one lot of grass to see if they do better than wheat. Looking very promising so far. Drilled beans into growing grass and then sprayed it off. Clean as a whistle atm

Dursban never killed earthworms.

 

[ollie989898]

Ditto above.

We have 90ha in on heavy land Ancholme Carr for a local AD plant. They like the silage, money is good & the land is back to doing what it always did best! May push for more up by the Humber where currently Rye that they cannot seem to get on with, longer lead but the land will benefit. Saw Bg in the first spring-ever since not had a look in. Forget anyone who tells you a 'variety can compete'- you need a species that can compete!

The ironic thing is that heavier the land the better it is for grass production!

People must be careful however as blackgrass can swamp out a new ley as it establishes. Variety composition of grass mixtures is very important.

 

[phil the cat]

The ironic thing is that heavier the land the better it is for grass production!

People must be careful however as blackgrass can swamp out a new ley as it establishes. Variety composition of grass mixtures is very important.

Can you recommend a ‘black grass beating’ mix? We would look to round bale silage for cattle’s winter feed & then sheep graze in the autumn to tidy up

 

[Brisel]

That's a good question. Late August sowing of any grass suits blackgrass far better than it does the new ley. Turnips or fodder rape for winter grazing followed by a spring sown grass crop would get you away from the autumn peak BG germination period. Just autocast the brassica fodder crop into the standing preceeding cereal crop and you won't be disturbing the seed bank either.

 

[phil the cat]

Yeah think forage rape would be a good fit as we’ve found they don’t get as dirty on it as the sheep are only eating the leaves and not the stem and root so much less turfing up the soil than with turnips.

 

[martian]

Dursban never killed earthworms.

In your dreams...reports I've read reckon it kills 25 to 50% of worms, and as they are close to the top of the soil food web and eat a lot of smaller creatures I'd expect their long term prospects would be even worse after the Dursban had worked it's magic.

 

[ollie989898]

In your dreams...reports I've read reckon it kills 25 to 50% of worms, and as they are close to the top of the soil food web and eat a lot of smaller creatures I'd expect their long term prospects would be even worse after the Dursban had worked it's magic.

Majority of my corn was after grass always saw millions of them alive after ploughing.

 

[ollie989898]

That's a good question. Late August sowing of any grass suits blackgrass far better than it does the new ley. Turnips or fodder rape for winter grazing followed by a spring sown grass crop would get you away from the autumn peak BG germination period. Just autocast the brassica fodder crop into the standing preceeding cereal crop and you won't be disturbing the seed bank either.

Thats s good idea. The hybrid rape options move like the proverbial off a shovel and bring in the ability to use alternative herbicides.

 

[Great In Grass]

Taken off a Dow Chemical Dursban data sheet.

"Toxicity to soil-dwelling organisms - LC50, Eisenia fetida (earthworms), 14 d, mortality, 313 mg/kg"

What does that imply?

 

[Pan mixer]

Taken off a Dow Chemical Dursban data sheet.

"Toxicity to soil-dwelling organisms - LC50, Eisenia fetida (earthworms), 14 d, mortality, 313 mg/kg"

What does that imply?

I thought that Dursban is banned?

Back to op topic.... I have tried 4 mixes of grasses on my blackgrass saturated (inherited) land

Year 2 for the Italian drilled autumn 16 - not much blackgrass visible at all today - mowed twice last year for haylage.

Year 2 for westerwold drilled spring 17, mowed once in August due to crap weather then grazed by cattle for a month or two, only BG where it is thin which is mainly where the cattle thinned it.

Year 2 of one of @Great In Grass 's mixes that didn't contain ryegrass drilled autumn 16 - cut once for haylage fairly early and since then had sheep and cattle grazing it, some is shut up for hay at present - no blackgrass obvious today.

Year 1 Festolium - drilled autumn 17 - seems to have swamped most of the blackgrass, many resistant wildoats in there though, will hay this firly early if I can which beggars the wild oats.

Verdict - early mowing if possible, then another or graze.

I intend to leave mine for 3 or 4 years though, the blackgrass seeds were up to 5 deep across the whole lot when I took this over.

Have Spring barley on the rest.

 

[Great In Grass]

I thought that Dursban is banned?

It is I was commenting on previous posts.

Year 2 for westerwold drilled spring 17, mowed once in August due to crap weather then grazed by cattle for a month or two, only BG where it is thin which is mainly where the cattle thinned it.

A pure Westerwolds stand can be thin as Westerwolds isn't great at tillering you'd need to add something else to it in the mix.

 

[Pan mixer]

A pure Westerwolds stand can be thin as Westerwolds isn't great at tillering you'd need to add something else to it in the mix.

I did - the Westerwold reseeded itself and is jolly thick now all over apart from the gateway/ water tank area.

I shall be spraying this out after a couple of cuts (if I get the second - this is Essex) and putting one of those ryegrass free mixes in later this year I hope.

 

[Great In Grass]

I did - the Westerwold reseeded itself and is jolly thick now all over apart from the gateway/ water tank area.

I shall be spraying this out after a couple of cuts (if I get the second - this is Essex) and putting one of those ryegrass free mixes in later this year I hope.

Fingers crossed on the weather later in the year.

 

[Pan mixer]

Fingers crossed on the weather later in the year.

Took a photo of it today just for you.

 

[Great In Grass]

Took a photo of it today just for you.

View attachment 670354

Certainly looks a good crop of grass thanks for the photo

 

[phil the cat]

I thought that Dursban is banned?

Back to op topic.... I have tried 4 mixes of grasses on my blackgrass saturated (inherited) land

Year 2 for the Italian drilled autumn 16 - not much blackgrass visible at all today - mowed twice last year for haylage.

Year 2 for westerwold drilled spring 17, mowed once in August due to crap weather then grazed by cattle for a month or two, only BG where it is thin which is mainly where the cattle thinned it.

Year 2 of one of @Great In Grass 's mixes that didn't contain ryegrass drilled autumn 16 - cut once for haylage fairly early and since then had sheep and cattle grazing it, some is shut up for hay at present - no blackgrass obvious today.

Year 1 Festolium - drilled autumn 17 - seems to have swamped most of the blackgrass, many resistant wildoats in there though, will hay this firly early if I can which beggars the wild oats.

Verdict - early mowing if possible, then another or graze.

I intend to leave mine for 3 or 4 years though, the blackgrass seeds were up to 5 deep across the whole lot when I took this over.

Have Spring barley on the rest.

Sounds like you have had good results with all of them then! Which would you recommend in terms of silage yield & quality to blackgrass control? Thanks

 

[Pan mixer]

Sounds like you have had good results with all of them then! Which would you recommend in terms of silage yield & quality to blackgrass control? Thanks

It looks like the Italian will be the winner, but I haven't cut yet as I want it eared for sucklers and horses, no good for grazing though

 

[ollie989898]

Italian is not a solution for all as it heads early, potentially too early for people on wet ground.

To suggest a mix I need to know:

How long do you want it to live?
What kind of land?
What will you do with it?