Blood Pressure

[mixedfmr]

146/86 was my reading yesterday do i need to take pills?

146/86 was my reading yesterday do i need to take pills?

You appear to be at the begining of borderline, age is a factor, weight , what you can eat to reduce it, beetroot ect
I was found to be 180+ / 90+ when i realised something wrong at lambing, and thought it was my eyes causing a heavy head
Ended up with Bloodpresure and Glycoma diagnosed, both in parents family history
Ramapril 10mg and Larcandapine 10mg bring it down to approx 135/75, One product brings it down approx 10%, that why 3 are used sometimes

What intrigues me is, what would be the reading if taken when your in debate (COMBAT) with a certain character on TFF, Will it be lower with your belief, OR higher with dispair, as some people are set in their thoughts

 

[Bossfarmer]

You appear to be at the begining of borderline, age is a factor, weight , what you can eat to reduce it, beetroot ect
I was found to be 180+ / 90+ when i realised something wrong at lambing, and thought it was my eyes causing a heavy head
Ended up with Bloodpresure and Glycoma diagnosed, both in parents family history
Ramapril 10mg and Larcandapine 10mg bring it down to approx 135/75, One product brings it down approx 10%, that why 3 are used sometimes

What intrigues me is, what would be the reading if taken when your in debate (COMBAT) with a certain character on TFF, Will it be lower with your belief, OR higher with dispair, as some people are set in their thoughts

interesting, i will need to keep an eye on it, is normal betroot like jars of baxters ok or is it too highly processed?

haha no these things dont stress me its more for amusement i reply as i know what im saying is usually correct, its more dad to day stuff that gets my stress levels up, high workload

 

[Bossfarmer]

day

 

[Old apprentice]

If you are taking all the meds and it is not bringing blood pressure down try a raft of B, vitamins

 

[ollie989898]

There are two kinds of hypertension (high blood pressure).

Primary or essential hypertension generally happens as people age. This is the one that most people with hypertension will have. Certainly more than 95+% of all the people I have ever seen or will see with higher than normal blood pressure will have primary hypertension. The thing is; nobody really knows what the actual cause of this is. There are various theories about this but one day someone will win a Nobel prize for working out exactly why this happens. There might even be a 'cure' of sorts that addresses or even prevents it that will turn up one day and it will sell bigly.

Studies have been done on tribes of people living in the wild; Nomadic peoples on the African plains, tribes who live deep within the jungle or in costal communities- all of whom are never exposed to the levels of pollutants we are in the developed world and more importantly have never been exposed to any of the Western diet. Despite all these things, and their very active, sunshine rich and hunter/gatherer lifestyles, these people too, experience a degree of primary hypertension as they age.


Secondary hypertension is a much rarer thing. But it's important to identify because it may be possible to cure it and more importantly it can drive your blood pressure extremely high.

This is a snip from a national early warning score chart, used in hospitals across the UK to monitor patients. You will note the wide range in potential readings before you enter the red (i.e. something is drastically wrong) range. You have just read that right- if you turn up in an emergency department with a blood pressure (systolic, as in the peak pressure generated when your heart contracts) you score a 0 whether your systolic is 125mmHg, 150mmHg or 200mmHg. Only when you get readings above 220mmHg do alarm bells ring. (note- this chart has no idea if you are male, female, young, old, on medicines, pregnant or any other factor of your health- it is thus only a piece of paper, it does not know what is normal or high blood pressure for you as an individual and so is not really used in clinical decision making, it is an early warning tool used to aid monitoring of patients by clinical staff- what they are actually looking for is changes to these numbers over time which may indicate a deterioration -or improvement- in a person).

Does this mean having a blood pressure over 140mmHg or more but under 220mmHg is healthy? Not really- studies have shown that if someone has sustained high blood pressure over long periods of time they are at high risk of complications because of this.

Firstly, your heart is a muscle and like more muscles if you work it harder it increases in size and power so it is better adapted to do it's job. Sounds ideal, no? Bigger heart, surely a good thing? Unfortunately not. Because of the shape of the heart and the way it contracts (in a sort of twisting motion which shortens it lengthwise), having thicker walls of the ventricles actually reduces the volume of blood it moves with each beat. So your cardiac output decreases- if you had a bucket that held 10 litres and magically made it thicker and stronger walled to the point it only held 8 litres, you wouldn't really be commending the designer of it as your bucket now holds less.

Next stop after the heart is your aorta. The aorta is a herculean blood vessel that is the anatomical equivalent of the M6 motorway. It is a lovely elastic and muscular artery that runs from your heart down the length of your body to your pelvis. It's the first structure that is going to be hit by that rising pressure of blood when the heart contracts ever more strongly. And it spent the first 20 or 30 years of your life doing about it's business quietly and happily. If you begin asking it to stick another 60 or 80mmHg onto it begins to test the design limits of this thing. It is strong and well built (diameter ranges around 2cm so not far off garden hose in size) but if you strain it enough, studies show that the risk of a dissection increases. Dissection is a strong word which to my mind means cut completely in half, but an aortic dissection really means blood manages to delaminate the vessel and form a pocket within the walls of the aorta as shown below. As you can imagine, repairing this sort of thing surgically isn't always the most straight forward thing to attempt.

Next up on our trip around the circulatory system is the kidney. The kidney is actually one of the geezers that regulates your blood pressure in the medium and long term through a variety of mechanisms. To do this is relies on being given information from sensing blood pressure and counteracts changes in this by secreting hormones to change things. Too much pressure- lets lose a bit of blood volume and pass more urine. Not enough pressure, lets retain more sodium and water will be reabsorbed. It's poetry. Even if you completely cut the nerve supply to a kidney, it will still carry on trying to regulate things all by itself. Magic. But it too was designed with a range of pressures in mind. In the same way it can't cope with extremely low blood pressure (you need to pass blood to the thing for it to be able to work) it has very fine filtration systems that can't really withstand high pressures. Press it too hard and these filtration systems don't work so well and you begin getting materials in the urine that shouldn't be there- protein or blood.

Next stop on this whistle stop tour is the brain. Now the brain is a privileged place to be at the best of times and it insists on a good steady blood supply. Brain tissue is quite spongy, too and it is filled with tiny arteries which supply all the respective regions. If your blood pressure is too low, you collapse and pass out. If your blood pressure is too high, you risk the pressure overwhelming some of those tiny arteries in your brain and you get a squirt of leaking blood which damages the soft tissue it enters- haemorrhagic stroke. Studies have shown that the stroke risk increases with high blood pressure.

Lastly, and worth a special mention are the eyes. At the back of the eye is a disc where the arteries that supply the retina enter and spread out. The eye is quite unique because it's the only place where you can actually visualise the arteries in the body with little more than the naked eye. Just look at the design of this thing, it's marvellous.. Look at those beautiful little arteries. Only if you have high blood pressure for long periods of time, these arteries also, are at risk of leaking which can have a knock on effect on sight.

These are just some of the reasons why there are medicines used to treat hypertension and why GPs have such an array of tricks up their sleeves to deal with it. Lots of evidence has been collected over many years by people who literally live and breathe the research of this stuff and put into risk estimates. Whilst no model can really tell if a particular individual will ever have any consequences from hypertension, they are a tool used to try and reduce the health burden of hypertension as best we can.

 

[ollie989898]

Secondary hypertension can be due to a number of things. Where hypertension is refractory to conventional treatment (i.e. combinations of medicines or therapies), it begins to raise suspicions of something else occurring because we know how most antihypertensive medications work really really well.

Signs of secondary hypertension caused by a specific pathology:

- Hypertension in a young person, particularly if they are sub 20 years of age- if they haven't aged then they are unlikely to have primary hypertension, surely?
- Abrupt onset (primary hypertension normally accumulates steadily over many years).
- Signs of some secondary condition (there are so many of these I couldn't even know where to begin to list them).
- No family history of hypertension (can be possible, probably unlikely, I don't actually know the details of this).
- Again, hypertension that doesn't respond to conventional treatments.

Potential causes of secondary hypertension

Right in at the top- medicines. Prescription medicines: steroids, contraceptive pills, hormone replacements and others all too numerous to list. Because drugs have all different effects, one of them might involve a change in blood pressure.
Not far behind: non-prescription medicines/drugs: alcohol, ecstasy, cocaine, nicotine, caffeine- again, these things bind to all sorts of things. If they are the right shape to bind to receptors in the heart- increased heart rate, increased force of contraction= blood pressure goes up.

Other causes in no particular order:

-Kidney disease, either failure of the kidney or stenosis (narrowing) of the arteries that supply the kidneys, meaning they can't regulate blood volume as well as before. More blood= more filling of the heart= more output of the heart.

-Endocrine conditions: Conn's/Cushing's, Acromegaly (excess growth hormone) or overactive thyroid (the thyroid sort of acts like the body's accelerator pedal, you push it, more things happen faster).

-Pregnancy- lots of hormones sloshing around (again this is more go pedal), more blood volume= more filling of heart=more heart output so a rise in blood pressure is sort of expected in pregnancy. Also pre-eclampsia in pregnancy.

Rare as fudge- pheochromocytoma- a tumour in one of the adrenal glands which begins secreting catecholamines (adrenaline etc), so your system is put into maximum fight or flight mode 24/7. Adrenaline binds to all sorts of receptors, including the cardiovascular system making blood pressure increase. I'd imagine you would feel pretty strange if you had one of these, sweating, palpitations, etc.

Hope you found this all interesting. Pretty cool this thing you're in control of, innit?

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

People electing not to take a prescribed medication would do well to consult with the person who prescribed it first.

Agreed. Always discuss your prescriptions with the prescribing medic.

Sometimes though they just aren't listening.

I was prescribed the NIHCE set of 5 drugs after my MI by the senior cardiology consultant who did my angioplasty (Bisoprolol, Ticagrelor, Ramipril, Apixaban & Atorvastatin) with hardly any health background questions being asked.

Despite the first 3 being at ¼ dose I was left with unacceptable side effects, a resting BP of < 80/50 and pulse of <40. I kept falling over!

After questioning it all for 18 months and just being told they were essential, I had to get on with it and they would "up titrate the dose" once I acclimatised I stopped the lot.

BP at rest now around 100/60, resting pulse around 46, no more postural hypotension, no more breathing issues, no more dry mouth and strong urine, and very active (regular mountain walker).

I repeat, I agree that nobody should stop their medication without discussing it fully with their prescribing doctor but, sometimes, they aren't listening and are just following dogma. Then you need a more open minded doctor.

 

[Two Tone]

Agreed. Always discuss your prescriptions with the prescribing medic.

Sometimes though they just aren't listening.

I was prescribed the NIHCE set of 5 drugs after my MI by the senior cardiology consultant who did my angioplasty (Bisoprolol, Ticagrelor, Ramipril, Apixaban & Atorvastatin) with hardly any health background questions being asked.

Despite the first 3 being at ¼ dose I was left with unacceptable side effects, a resting BP of < 80/50 and pulse of <40. I kept falling over!

After questioning it all for 18 months and just being told they were essential, I had to get on with it and they would "up titrate the dose" once I acclimatised I stopped the lot.

BP at rest now around 100/60, resting pulse around 46, no more postural hypotension, no more breathing issues, no more dry mouth and strong urine, for and very active (regular mountain walker).

I repeat, I agree that nobody should stop their medication without discussing it fully with their prescribing doctor but, sometimes, they aren't listening and are just following dogma. Then you need a more open minded doctor.

I had almost exactly the same experience, with the same drugs but without Apixaban, except my BP didn’t drop as low as yours.
Talking to my cardio doctors was like talking to a brick wall at Banbury, though I believe if I had been able to speak to the ones at the JR, Oxford, they might have been more helpful.
My own GP Doctor and Nurses were much more helpfull. It was them that said stop taking the Atorvostatin.
I had terrible muscular pain and whole chunks of memory loss until I did that.

After a year when I came off Ticagrelor, things improved even more.
Especially the nightly gums bleeding onto my pillows.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

I had almost exactly the same experience, with the same drugs but without Apixaban, except my BP didn’t drop as low as yours.
Talking to my cardio doctors was like talking to a brick wall at Banbury, though I believe if I had been able to speak to the ones at the JR, Oxford, they might have been more helpful.
My own GP Doctor and Nurses were much more helpfull. It was them that said stop taking the Atorvostatin.
I had terrible muscular pain and whole chunks of memory loss until I did that.

After a year when I came off Ticagrelor, things improved even more.
Especially the nightly gums bleeding onto my pillows.

My own cardiology consultant appeared more interested in getting me signed up to his current research trial than anything else once he'd completed my angioplasty.

If I had been hypertensive I would DEFINITELY have stayed on some medication. I am not and never have been but nobody bothered to ask me that before starting me on them.

 

[ollie989898]

Agreed. Always discuss your prescriptions with the prescribing medic.

Sometimes though they just aren't listening.

I was prescribed the NIHCE set of 5 drugs after my MI by the senior cardiology consultant who did my angioplasty (Bisoprolol, Ticagrelor, Ramipril, Apixaban & Atorvastatin) with hardly any health background questions being asked.

Despite the first 3 being at ¼ dose I was left with unacceptable side effects, a resting BP of < 80/50 and pulse of <40. I kept falling over!

After questioning it all for 18 months and just being told they were essential, I had to get on with it and they would "up titrate the dose" once I acclimatised I stopped the lot.

BP at rest now around 100/60, resting pulse around 46, no more postural hypotension, no more breathing issues, no more dry mouth and strong urine, for and very active (regular mountain walker).

I repeat, I agree that nobody should stop their medication without discussing it fully with their prescribing doctor but, sometimes, they aren't listening and are just following dogma. Then you need a more open minded doctor.

Jebus. Did they not take any notice of your blood pressure being like that?

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Jebus. Did they not take any notice of your blood pressure being like that?

No

His response was "you'll have to wear level 2 compression stockings then"

 

[Old apprentice]

My wife went to gp, with blood pressure 200 over 100 th bright spark said come back in a fortnight to a clinic. When she came home I said sod that I gave here some of my prescription and she got straight on the phone to a private gp, soon sorted and a prescription for her he keeps in touch until things were under control rubbish nhs, gp,

 

[ollie989898]

No

His response was "you'll have to wear level 2 compression stockings then"

I can't say I understand any of it enough to be able to understand the thinking behind any of that I'm afraid.

 

[mixedfmr]

interesting, i will need to keep an eye on it, is normal betroot like jars of baxters ok or is it too highly processed?

haha no these things dont stress me its more for amusement i reply as i know what im saying is usually correct, its more dad to day stuff that gets my stress levels up, high workload

I eat the Baxter like , but Derrick Hughes on here get quick results (minutes) with beetroot juice

 

[mixedfmr]

There are two kinds of hypertension (high blood pressure).

Primary or essential hypertension generally happens as people age. This is the one that most people with hypertension will have. Certainly more than 95+% of all the people I have ever seen or will see with higher than normal blood pressure will have primary hypertension. The thing is; nobody really knows what the actual cause of this is. There are various theories about this but one day someone will win a Nobel prize for working out exactly why this happens. There might even be a 'cure' of sorts that addresses or even prevents it that will turn up one day and it will sell bigly.

Studies have been done on tribes of people living in the wild; Nomadic peoples on the African plains, tribes who live deep within the jungle or in costal communities- all of whom are never exposed to the levels of pollutants we are in the developed world and more importantly have never been exposed to any of the Western diet. Despite all these things, and their very active, sunshine rich and hunter/gatherer lifestyles, these people too, experience a degree of primary hypertension as they age.


Secondary hypertension is a much rarer thing. But it's important to identify because it may be possible to cure it and more importantly it can drive your blood pressure extremely high.

This is a snip from a national early warning score chart, used in hospitals across the UK to monitor patients. You will note the wide range in potential readings before you enter the red (i.e. something is drastically wrong) range. You have just read that right- if you turn up in an emergency department with a blood pressure (systolic, as in the peak pressure generated when your heart contracts) you score a 0 whether your systolic is 125mmHg, 150mmHg or 200mmHg. Only when you get readings above 220mmHg do alarm bells ring. (note- this chart has no idea if you are male, female, young, old, on medicines, pregnant or any other factor of your health- it is thus only a piece of paper, it does not know what is normal or high blood pressure for you as an individual and so is not really used in clinical decision making, it is an early warning tool used to aid monitoring of patients by clinical staff- what they are actually looking for is changes to these numbers over time which may indicate a deterioration -or improvement- in a person).


View attachment 1171967

Does this mean having a blood pressure over 140mmHg or more but under 220mmHg is healthy? Not really- studies have shown that if someone has sustained high blood pressure over long periods of time they are at high risk of complications because of this.

Firstly, your heart is a muscle and like more muscles if you work it harder it increases in size and power so it is better adapted to do it's job. Sounds ideal, no? Bigger heart, surely a good thing? Unfortunately not. Because of the shape of the heart and the way it contracts (in a sort of twisting motion which shortens it lengthwise), having thicker walls of the ventricles actually reduces the volume of blood it moves with each beat. So your cardiac output decreases- if you had a bucket that held 10 litres and magically made it thicker and stronger walled to the point it only held 8 litres, you wouldn't really be commending the designer of it as your bucket now holds less.

View attachment 1171968

Next stop after the heart is your aorta. The aorta is a herculean blood vessel that is the anatomical equivalent of the M6 motorway. It is a lovely elastic and muscular artery that runs from your heart down the length of your body to your pelvis. It's the first structure that is going to be hit by that rising pressure of blood when the heart contracts ever more strongly. And it spent the first 20 or 30 years of your life doing about it's business quietly and happily. If you begin asking it to stick another 60 or 80mmHg onto it begins to test the design limits of this thing. It is strong and well built (diameter ranges around 2cm so not far off garden hose in size) but if you strain it enough, studies show that the risk of a dissection increases. Dissection is a strong word which to my mind means cut completely in half, but an aortic dissection really means blood manages to delaminate the vessel and form a pocket within the walls of the aorta as shown below. As you can imagine, repairing this sort of thing surgically isn't always the most straight forward thing to attempt.


View attachment 1171969

Next up on our trip around the circulatory system is the kidney. The kidney is actually one of the geezers that regulates your blood pressure in the medium and long term through a variety of mechanisms. To do this is relies on being given information from sensing blood pressure and counteracts changes in this by secreting hormones to change things. Too much pressure- lets lose a bit of blood volume and pass more urine. Not enough pressure, lets retain more sodium and water will be reabsorbed. It's poetry. Even if you completely cut the nerve supply to a kidney, it will still carry on trying to regulate things all by itself. Magic. But it too was designed with a range of pressures in mind. In the same way it can't cope with extremely low blood pressure (you need to pass blood to the thing for it to be able to work) it has very fine filtration systems that can't really withstand high pressures. Press it too hard and these filtration systems don't work so well and you begin getting materials in the urine that shouldn't be there- protein or blood.

Next stop on this whistle stop tour is the brain. Now the brain is a privileged place to be at the best of times and it insists on a good steady blood supply. Brain tissue is quite spongy, too and it is filled with tiny arteries which supply all the respective regions. If your blood pressure is too low, you collapse and pass out. If your blood pressure is too high, you risk the pressure overwhelming some of those tiny arteries in your brain and you get a squirt of leaking blood which damages the soft tissue it enters- haemorrhagic stroke. Studies have shown that the stroke risk increases with high blood pressure.

Lastly, and worth a special mention are the eyes. At the back of the eye is a disc where the arteries that supply the retina enter and spread out. The eye is quite unique because it's the only place where you can actually visualise the arteries in the body with little more than the naked eye. Just look at the design of this thing, it's marvellous.. Look at those beautiful little arteries. Only if you have high blood pressure for long periods of time, these arteries also, are at risk of leaking which can have a knock on effect on sight.

View attachment 1171970


These are just some of the reasons why there are medicines used to treat hypertension and why GPs have such an array of tricks up their sleeves to deal with it. Lots of evidence has been collected over many years by people who literally live and breathe the research of this stuff and put into risk estimates. Whilst no model can really tell if a particular individual will ever have any consequences from hypertension, they are a tool used to try and reduce the health burden of hypertension as best we can.

The eye imfo very intresting, I have heriditory Glycoma and the consultant said to try vitamin B, (although he didnt know which one), as experiments were been undertaken to findout its effect on increasing blood flow to the eyes
So i consulted my INHOUSE Doctor and she said Niacin vitamin B3, (the flush one). It works, and give a tingling, glowing feeling throughout the body, quite worrying at first untill you realise what it is

 

[Bossfarmer]

I eat the Baxter like , but Derrick Hughes on here get quick results (minutes) with beetroot juice

yes the juice could be a quicker easier way of getting daily beetroot, is it the "beet it" juice that comes in cartons you use @Derrick Hughes?

 

[mixedfmr]

yes the juice could be a quicker easier way of getting daily beetroot, is it the "beet it" juice that comes in cartons you use @Derrick Hughes?

I use Aldi Beetroot in a jar , it has less sugar than others but they all contain sacharin, Dereck Hughes swears by juice ,

 

[Bossfarmer]

I use Aldi Beetroot in a jar , it has less sugar than others but they all contain sacharin, Dereck Hughes swears by juice ,

is sacharin bad? thats one thing ive never heard of

 

[mixedfmr]

is sacharin bad? thats one thing ive never heard of

Its artificial, but been on the go for years so i presume its ok

 

[Derrick Hughes]

come off a tractor, walked in, sat down and took a reading

How soon after you came in , test it twice a day for a week and keep a book , but don't take it until you have rested a bit , work out the avarage