Bloody thieving gits and folk who deal with them

[IH 684]

Solicitors are sometimes corrupt, Barristers too but less so, , possibly because of less opportunity... However that is more a matter regarding the likes of conveyancing and client accounts I would guess. I have not come across a 'corrupt' criminal solicitor, nauseating lefty-liberal apologist types yes, the sort who try and find ways for the public to fund actions against public bodies and organisations.

The police should not be bent, full stop. I don't care if it is 'in a good cause', if the police are fabricating, competent Counsel will notice it, will test it, will establish it and will see action is taken about it; and the first thing that will happen is that the trial will fold and, at best, more public money will be spent on another - at worst a kiddy-fiddler will walk...

Magistrates... where to start, it is a myth that good justice comes from a lay (amateur) Magistracy, their training is minimal, their prejudices - left or right or against tracksuit wearers - are always apparent and, in any case, it is the Court's Clerk who advises and supervises what they do. We should remove them altogether and stick to stipe's, now known as District Judges. If anything is serious a jury can always be called upon in the Crown Court, this removes control from a legal 'elite'.

Our laws are fine, our system is fine, the problem lies with individuals not applying and misapplying the laws or utilising the system properly. This starts with the police and goes through the lower Courts and the probation service, and ends with the lack of political will and support demonstrated in the Home Office and Downing Street.

Ultimately there is no real deterrent in stopping thieves. Let's face it modern jails are on parr with 3star Spanish hotels. If you look at the hovels on tv these oppourtunists criminals live in, a warm prison cell, clean clothes, food, leisure facilities, no wonder prison is not a deterrent. If prison was breaking rocks all day, sleeping on a straw filled potatoe sack and fed slops. I am certain a lot would think twice before going out to commit crime. Or another way which would work, would be first theft offence 5 year mandatory sentence. Second offence 10 year sentence. This would reduce prison numbers as no one would want to get 5 years for stealing an ifor.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Ultimately there is no real deterrent in stopping thieves. Let's face it modern jails are on parr with 3star Spanish hotels. If you look at the hovels on tv these oppourtunists criminals live in, a warm prison cell, clean clothes, food, leisure facilities, no wonder prison is not a deterrent. If prison was breaking rocks all day, sleeping on a straw filled potatoe sack and fed slops. I am certain a lot would think twice before going out to commit crime. Or another way which would work, would be first theft offence 5 year mandatory sentence. Second offence 10 year sentence. This would reduce prison numbers as no one would want to get 5 years for stealing an ifor.

The trouble is that for ANY deterrence to work they have to believe that they are likely to be caught. At present "detection" rates are so low that, even if the starting point was 10 years" they don't care about the sentence as they assume they won't get caught.

 

[Roger Perry]

The driving force behind theft in many cases is getting money for drugs, drugs have been around for ever but now low cost has drawn so many more addicts to commit crime.

Any effort to help users get off drugs will have a knock on effect I believe.

To give some idea of the disaster we are all facing, it's reported there were in 2015, 52,427 overdose deaths in the US........that's reported......how many went un-reported..?

 

[john432]

Has anyone had their stolen quad bike back? Police in one of the pembs ports, found a number of quads hidden in the front of a shipping container heading for Ireland. Its alleged that a Ceredigion machinery trader/dealer was responsible for the container.

 

[ollie989898]

In America they have the death penalty and very effective jails. I believe they have the largest prison population on earth on a per capita basis. Does this stop them having any crime?

No. It doesn't. You can't deter someone from committing crime. It doesn't work. The reason none of us on this forum commit crimes is because we have a strong sense of moral duty, of right and wrong, and respect others and their property, not because of the potential punishment we might be handed for any offence.

As such, the only way you will stop crime is to adjust a population culturally, and have a more equitable distribution of wealth and measures which make it pointless to commit property thefts.

Also I would accept any amount of property theft in the UK if it means we do not have the murder rate of the US or the incidence of extremely violent crimes. Shooting people who are in the process of stealing a quad bike is not morally defensible IMHO.

 

[Henarar]

The reason none of us on this forum commit crimes is because we have a strong sense of moral duty, of right and wrong, and respect others and their property,

you really think nobody on this forum commits any crime ?

 

[ollie989898]

you really think nobody on this forum commits any crime ?

Speaking figuratively of course. Whether or not anyone on this forum is a would-be criminal is something I could not speculate upon. I can't say I have ever knowingly broken any laws myself.

 

[Cowabunga]

Has anyone had their stolen quad bike back? Police in one of the pembs ports, found a number of quads hidden in the front of a shipping container heading for Ireland. Its alleged that a Ceredigion machinery trader/dealer was responsible for the container.

I can't imagine who the Ceredigion trader would be but can imagine one from Carmarthenshire, fairly or unfairly. All I do know is that a stolen tractor was spotted there some years ago with its serial numbers destroyed and new number plates, by someone who knew the tractor well. Police were notified immediately and it took them four days to visit, by which time the tractor was gone. The police were chased up several times, because this was a 25K tractor, but they really were not interested. It disappeared without trace after that. This was not a major machinery dealer.

The people who had a hiding when the trailer [or 'horse box'] was removed without payment, mentioned earlier, is in the local newspaper today on an unrelated matter, being prosecuted on a dog related matter. Big news item.

 

[Red Fred]

you really think nobody on this forum commits any crime ?

I forgot to register a calf last year but I think I got away.....hold on, there's someone at the door...

 

[Henarar]

I forgot to register a calf last year but I think I got away.....hold on, there's someone at the door...

 

[J 1177]

Police in county durham had no issues in going into a gypo camp at Darlington, forcing them all out, arresting them and recovering stolen vehicles. Supposedly darlington gypo's are the ones in charge of all gypo's

The ones near us all left their site the night their relatives were dug up. Theyd upset some nasty folk. Nastier than them.

 

[Henarar]

The ones near us all left their site the night their relatives were dug up. Theyd upset some nasty folk. Nastier than them.

some will take them on, I know a couple farmers that had some gear go missing they went to the camp and got it back, mind you they didn't give a f**k what they done

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

The ones near us all left their site the night their relatives were dug up. Theyd upset some nasty folk. Nastier than them.

A few years ago I heard of some travellers in Norfolk who stole diesel from the wrong yard, a haulage yard run by some rough Lithuanians. The violent response was prevented from becoming murder when the police turned up

 

[Grassman]

In America they have the death penalty and very effective jails. I believe they have the largest prison population on earth on a per capita basis. Does this stop them having any crime?

No. It doesn't. You can't deter someone from committing crime. It doesn't work. The reason none of us on this forum commit crimes is because we have a strong sense of moral duty, of right and wrong, and respect others and their property, not because of the potential punishment we might be handed for any offence.

As such, the only way you will stop crime is to adjust a population culturally, and have a more equitable distribution of wealth and measures which make it pointless to commit property thefts.

Also I would accept any amount of property theft in the UK if it means we do not have the murder rate of the US or the incidence of extremely violent crimes. Shooting people who are in the process of stealing a quad bike is not morally defensible IMHO.

Sorry I dont agree with you.
You are never going to even out wealth in the world. And a lot of criminals will always be criminals as they have little deterrent and enjoy their way of life.

 

[Roger Perry]

Well in Britain I understand that you do have a distribution of wealth but it has not prevented crime, in fact crime is on the increase.
And yes, if I caught someone stealing my tractor or whatever they better get ready to back up their intent.

 

[Danllan]

@holwellcourtfarm & @Roger Perry

The response to the above two posts is joined... The vast majority of troublesome crime in any given areas is committed by, in relative terms, a very small number of people. I remember being told by the senior police officer of one division in Hertfordshire, that if he could hold a dozen people without charge the crime there would fall by about 90%; I've heard similar things from other areas too, notably one part of Southern Bedfordshire.

Depending upon where you are, the vast majority of criminals will most likely be 'travellers' or those involved with drugs in some way, sometimes both. Remember I am writing about repeat offenders, the sort of people who simply will not go straight, cannot be rehabilitated and from whom the public can only be protected by handing down custodial sentences.

I repeat a point I made in an earlier post, our laws and system are good, its the 'bleeding heart' liberals who are preventing them from being used correctly. This will change once a breaking point has been reached, it's anyone's guess as to precisely where that point is - my guess is that we are approaching it at an accelerating rate.

In America they have the death penalty and very effective jails. I believe they have the largest prison population on earth on a per capita basis... Also I would accept any amount of property theft in the UK if it means we do not have the murder rate of the US or the incidence of extremely violent crimes. Shooting people who are in the process of stealing a quad bike is not morally defensible... Speaking figuratively of course. Whether or not anyone on this forum is a would-be criminal is something I could not speculate upon. I can't say I have ever knowingly broken any laws myself.

Of course very few things are as bad or worse than murder, but the misery and stress that persistent crime can inflict upon someone has to be seen to be believed, I have seen several people reduced to suicidal despair because of a campaign against them by 'travelling' families. Buildings burnt, animals mutilated or poisoned, fences cut, gates gone, petrol poured through letterboxes, excrement everywhere you can think, threats and acts of violence against even small children; and all on a daily basis for many months, sometimes years. Live through it, or at least see it first hand and then comment advisedly.

Anyone who speeds is breaking the law; ignorance of the law is no defence. These are just two reasons why there is judicial and prosecutorial discretion.

 

[Red Fred]

@holwellcourtfarm & @Roger Perry

The response to the above two posts is joined... The vast majority of troublesome crime in any given areas is committed by, in relative terms, a very small number of people. I remember being told by the senior police officer of one division in Hertfordshire, that if he could hold a dozen people without charge the crime there would fall by about 90%; I've heard similar things from other areas too, notably one part of Southern Bedfordshire.
.

In the New Forest, there are warning signs in every car park telling visitors to watch out for thieves and car break-ins are at epidemic levels, but the police reckon it is almost all caused by a single family from Southampton way who work together, children and all, posing as picknickers and watching for unguarded cars. I have heard too that it would fall to almost zero if these half a dozen scumbags were taken out of circulation.

 

[Philip Watkins]

...... I can't say I have ever knowingly broken any laws myself.

You have never driven over the speed limit or gone through traffic lights when you should have stopped? Never parked on double yellow lines?

 

[ollie989898]

@holwellcourtfarm & @Roger Perry

The response to the above two posts is joined... The vast majority of troublesome crime in any given areas is committed by, in relative terms, a very small number of people. I remember being told by the senior police officer of one division in Hertfordshire, that if he could hold a dozen people without charge the crime there would fall by about 90%; I've heard similar things from other areas too, notably one part of Southern Bedfordshire.

Depending upon where you are, the vast majority of criminals will most likely be 'travellers' or those involved with drugs in some way, sometimes both. Remember I am writing about repeat offenders, the sort of people who simply will not go straight, cannot be rehabilitated and from whom the public can only be protected by handing down custodial sentences.

I repeat a point I made in an earlier post, our laws and system are good, its the 'bleeding heart' liberals who are preventing them from being used correctly. This will change once a breaking point has been reached, it's anyone's guess as to precisely where that point is - my guess is that we are approaching it at an accelerating rate.



Of course very few things are as bad or worse than murder, but the misery and stress that persistent crime can inflict upon someone has to be seen to be believed, I have seen several people reduced to suicidal despair because of a campaign against them by 'travelling' families. Buildings burnt, animals mutilated or poisoned, fences cut, gates gone, petrol poured through letterboxes, excrement everywhere you can think, threats and acts of violence against even small children; and all on a daily basis for many months, sometimes years. Live through it, or at least see it first hand and then comment advisedly.

Anyone who speeds is breaking the law; ignorance of the law is no defence. These are just two reasons why there is judicial and prosecutorial discretion.

The only remedy is to incarcerate them. This is what prison is for. If you can't abide by the accepted norms and rules of society, you will eventually be imprisoned and segregated from society. Simple as that.

What is needed is a radically overhauled justice system, big spanking new jails and judges who are actually able to hand out stiff custodial sentences. Not property owners shooting up people trying to protect property.

 

[ollie989898]

You have never driven over the speed limit or gone through traffic lights when you should have stopped? Never parked on double yellow lines?

I have never parked on double yellow lines to my knowledge as I don't want a ticket. I can't say I have ran a red light as I am not brave enough.

Speeding is not something I habitually do, either.