BNG on grass land

[Doing it for the kids]

Looking at options to tie a bit of land up to BNG, 30 yr time frame is fine.

I know about the baseline survey which will currently not score too well.

They are Exploring planting wild life grasses rather than grazing grass, maybe a few ponds etc.

What sort of ball park figure could one hope to sell credits for? They said they had heard around £150-200 an acre over the life of the agreement.

I assume there will be obligations to ‘Maintain’ what is created but it can’t be that hard, maybe lightly graze?

I’ve never had any thing to do with BNG but it’s gaining traction, I think others on here are bound to have some tit bits I can pass on or agents who specialise in it…

 

[Top Tip.]

Looking at options to tie a bit of land up to BNG, 30 yr time frame is fine.

I know about the baseline survey which will currently not score too well.

They are Exploring planting wild life grasses rather than grazing grass, maybe a few ponds etc.

What sort of ball park figure could one hope to sell credits for? They said they had heard around £150-200 an acre over the life of the agreement.

I assume there will be obligations to ‘Maintain’ what is created but it can’t be that hard, maybe lightly graze?

I’ve never had any thing to do with BNG but it’s gaining traction, I think others on here are bound to have some tit bits I can pass on or agents who specialise in it…

BNG?

 

[Doing it for the kids]

Bio diversity net gain. It’s crazy and delaying all planing applications.

To give you an example, a prestigious hotel in a city near here applied, like they often do, to erect a marque in the grounds for longer than the 28 day rule.

They had to off set for 30 yrs the BNG on the grass for the TEMPORARY structure over the summer.

They just tried to get me to do one on a replacement building, Luckily the concrete floor was devoid of newts and badgers so they backed off

 

[onesiedale]

wild flower meadows in the right scheme with the right council/local planning targets could quite comfortably get to £25k/unit and given that 2 to 3 units per acre are achievable I think someone has been missing a few 0's in their expectations.

 

[onesiedale]

Bio diversity net gain. It’s crazy and delaying all planing applications.

To give you an example, a prestigious hotel in a city near here applied, like they often do, to erect a marque in the grounds for longer than the 28 day rule.

They had to off set for 30 yrs the BNG on the grass for the TEMPORARY structure over the summer.

They just tried to get me to do one on a replacement building, Luckily the concrete floor was devoid of newts and badgers so they backed off

sounds extreme, which council authority are you under?

 

[Doing it for the kids]

wild flower meadows in the right scheme with the right council/local planning targets could quite comfortably get to £25k/unit and given that 2 to 3 units per acre are achievable I think someone has been missing a few 0's in their expectations.

They were told 2-3 acres / unit. That makes an acre worth, over 30 yrs, £1666 to £2500 per annum. You sure!?

If that’s the case please tell me who to speak to!!!!

 

[Hindsight]

Looking at options to tie a bit of land up to BNG, 30 yr time frame is fine.

I know about the baseline survey which will currently not score too well.

They are Exploring planting wild life grasses rather than grazing grass, maybe a few ponds etc.

What sort of ball park figure could one hope to sell credits for? They said they had heard around £150-200 an acre over the life of the agreement.

I assume there will be obligations to ‘Maintain’ what is created but it can’t be that hard, maybe lightly graze?

I’ve never had any thing to do with BNG but it’s gaining traction, I think others on here are bound to have some tit bits I can pass on or agents who specialise in it…

Townsends Exeter have some good guides to read and seem to know what is going on.

Townsend Chartered Surveyors

townsendcharteredsurveyors.co.uk

 

[Nearly]

@Coximus

 

[Kidds]

While on the subject, I am not very clued up and don't fully understand all the details and as far as I can make out nor is anybody else including the Councils.
I have some development plans further down the line and while I would like to do stuff around the place that would increase the biodiversity I am deliberately holding off as I don't want the baseline set high to start with. I would much rather keep it as a barren wasteland for now in case the beautiful wildflower meadow I would like to setup puts me on the backfoot further down the line.
I feel it is counterproductive at the moment as nobody can set out exactly what it all means and what the future implications may be. Or am I wrong?

 

[T Hectares]

While on the subject, I am not very clued up and don't fully understand all the details and as far as I can make out nor is anybody else including the Councils.
I have some development plans further down the line and while I would like to do stuff around the place that would increase the biodiversity I am deliberately holding off as I don't want the baseline set high to start with. I would much rather keep it as a barren wasteland for now in case the beautiful wildflower meadow I would like to setup puts me on the backfoot further down the line.
I feel it is counterproductive at the moment as nobody can set out exactly what it all means and what the future implications may be. Or am I wrong?

You are not wrong in not improving any site you may want to develop but BNG is well understood, there are many specialists who understand the DEFRA metric it’s all scored from, albeit there is a real lag implementing it at LPA level

Any habitat you destroy to build has to be replaced with a 10% uplift but you will only reduce your future credit requirement rather than negate it, you should be able to get clear answers to your questions

 

[onesiedale]

While on the subject, I am not very clued up and don't fully understand all the details and as far as I can make out nor is anybody else including the Councils.
I have some development plans further down the line and while I would like to do stuff around the place that would increase the biodiversity I am deliberately holding off as I don't want the baseline set high to start with. I would much rather keep it as a barren wasteland for now in case the beautiful wildflower meadow I would like to setup puts me on the backfoot further down the line.
I feel it is counterproductive at the moment as nobody can set out exactly what it all means and what the future implications may be. Or am I wrong?

you are right.
Get your baselining done now and then the reference will be recorded.
Get it done formally with an ecologist/consultant. You will then have a metric for your available units.
All this will cost, especially if you never cash in the units, but it does give you the opportunity to start on the beautiful wild flower meadow project knowing that you shouldn't impede future BNG opportunities.

 

[devonbeef]

if it was so good a money earner, why is land selling for a lot less than it;s value in BNG units, i don.t understand, makes me think it is being overstated? Anyone explain ?

 

[onesiedale]

BNG units are not for the feint hearted .
They are a big commitment, 30 years is a long time. Land must be free of any mortgage/borrowing, and there is a section 106 planning to assign to tie it to building develpoment.
There is a huge amount of up front costs. The 60 acres here has comfortably swallowed a cool 50k so far.
The rewards are huge at the moment but still not guaranteed until the cash hits the bank.
Nobody fully knows the rules yet, developers, consultants, ecologists, accountants, planners and even the inland revenue! So tread with care.

 

[Doing it for the kids]

you are right.
Get your baselining done now and then the reference will be recorded.
Get it done formally with an ecologist/consultant. You will then have a metric for your available units.
All this will cost, especially if you never cash in the units, but it does give you the opportunity to start on the beautiful wild flower meadow project knowing that you shouldn't impede future BNG opportunities.

Any idea what the cost could be per acre? assume the bigger the area, the less the cost proportionally?

if it was so good a money earner, why is land selling for a lot less than it;s value in BNG units, i don.t understand, makes me think it is being overstated? Anyone explain ?

Exactly, doesn't make sense - i think its a sunrise industry and no one fully knows the score yet - early bird catches the worm, or gets caught first by the cat?

BNG units are not for the feint hearted .
They are a big commitment, 30 years is a long time. Land must be free of any mortgage/borrowing, and there is a section 106 planning to assign to tie it to building develpoment.
There is a huge amount of up front costs. The 60 acres here has comfortably swallowed a cool 50k so far.
The rewards are huge at the moment but still not guaranteed until the cash hits the bank.
Nobody fully knows the rules yet, developers, consultants, ecologists, accountants, planners and even the inland revenue! So tread with care.

ignoring the time frames (which i know is huge) what other commitments are there? presumably maintain the credits that were sold so grass maintenance etc? do they come back and audit it to make sure they are getting what they paid for?

i wonder how the inland revenue see it in terms of tax? is it stil farming....

whats the difference then between carbon offset and BNG (new thread?!)

 

[onesiedale]

ignoring the time frames (which i know is huge) what other commitments are there? presumably maintain the credits that were sold so grass maintenance etc? do they come back and audit it to make sure they are getting what they paid for?

i wonder how the inland revenue see it in terms of tax? is it stil farming....

whats the difference then between carbon offset and BNG (new thread?!)

not a case of maintaining credits, you must show Net Gains. You/an ecologist monitors the land every 3 years and document it, refering back to the contracts aims and targets.
Inland revenue are still sitting on the fence. Big one is that the price per acre (lets say 50k for simple figures) is an expense to the developer in yr. 1.
However, that money hits your bank account in yr.1 , unless there is some robust accountancy gymnastics, you will have some serious taxable profits to deal with. As for the Ag. status, seem pretty comfortable with that presently as the agreement here requires livestock grazing.
BNG Vs carbon credits are 2 very different markets. different discussion altogether

 

[Grass And Grain]

if it was so good a money earner, why is land selling for a lot less than it;s value in BNG units, i don.t understand, makes me think it is being overstated? Anyone explain ?

Suppose there are ongoing costs over next 30 years. Monitoring and delivering the habitat. But potentially buy poor arable land for £8k, put it down to wildflower meadow, pocket the BMG payment of saying £20+k/acre, leaving you about £16k after tax, then sell field to some mug or wildlife trust for £1k/acre or extensively graze it yourself.

I'd be cautious of BNG companies promising the earth, but not actually having many BNG requirements from their developers, then charging you £1,500 for a baseline survey. (i.e. are they just in the business of knocking out a £200 survey for £1,500, then never actually come up with any BNG customer for you.

Maybe find your own developer needing BNG, do a deal with them, then employ the ecologist for a survey and to fill out the BNG metric calculator. Suppose theoretically you need to baseline first so you know how many units you'll have for sale, but doesn't arable converted to species rich hay meadow provide an uplift of about 3 BNG units/ha, hopefully worth £20+k/unit IF you can get someone to pay that amount.

Any idea what the cost could be per acre? assume the bigger the area, the less the cost proportionally?


Exactly, doesn't make sense - i think its a sunrise industry and no one fully knows the score yet - early bird catches the worm, or gets caught first by the cat?


ignoring the time frames (which i know is huge) what other commitments are there? presumably maintain the credits that were sold so grass maintenance etc? do they come back and audit it to make sure they are getting what they paid for?

i wonder how the inland revenue see it in terms of tax? is it stil farming....

whats the difference then between carbon offset and BNG (new thread?!)

Environmental audits every few years to compare delivery with the BNG aims.

not a case of maintaining credits, you must show Net Gains. You/an ecologist monitors the land every 3 years and document it, refering back to the contracts aims and targets.
Inland revenue are still sitting on the fence. Big one is that the price per acre (lets say 50k for simple figures) is an expense to the developer in yr. 1.
However, that money hits your bank account in yr.1 , unless there is some robust accountancy gymnastics, you will have some serious taxable profits to deal with. As for the Ag. status, seem pretty comfortable with that presently as the agreement here requires livestock grazing.
BNG Vs carbon credits are 2 very different markets. different discussion altogether

Think HMRC have said BNG land will get IHT relief from April 2025???

I'd guess a chunky upfront BNG payment will be a capital gain (rather than income tax), but don't know for certain. Strange one though, as the capital value of the land will be dramatically reduced on day 2 of the 30 year BNG agreement.

Need to account for 20+ % tax on that initial payment though.

 

[onthehoof]

Any idea what the cost could be per acre? assume the bigger the area, the less the cost proportionally?


Exactly, doesn't make sense - i think its a sunrise industry and no one fully knows the score yet - early bird catches the worm, or gets caught first by the cat?


ignoring the time frames (which i know is huge) what other commitments are there? presumably maintain the credits that were sold so grass maintenance etc? do they come back and audit it to make sure they are getting what they paid for?

i wonder how the inland revenue see it in terms of tax? is it stil farming....

whats the difference then between carbon offset and BNG (new thread?!)

What is the land currently?

 

[Doing it for the kids]

not a case of maintaining credits, you must show Net Gains. You/an ecologist monitors the land every 3 years and document it, refering back to the contracts aims and targets.
Inland revenue are still sitting on the fence. Big one is that the price per acre (lets say 50k for simple figures) is an expense to the developer in yr. 1.
However, that money hits your bank account in yr.1 , unless there is some robust accountancy gymnastics, you will have some serious taxable profits to deal with. As for the Ag. status, seem pretty comfortable with that presently as the agreement here requires livestock grazing.
BNG Vs carbon credits are 2 very different markets. different discussion altogether

can we have the BNG vs CC chat then please, if you have any wisdom to share, or shall i start up a new thread?

They are fortunately rather well placed to handle the tax side of things.

Suppose there are ongoing costs over next 30 years. Monitoring and delivering the habitat. But potentially buy poor arable land for £8k, put it down to wildflower meadow, pocket the BMG payment of saying £20+k/acre, leaving you about £16k after tax, then sell field to some mug or wildlife trust for £1k/acre or extensively graze it yourself.

I'd be cautious of BNG companies promising the earth, but not actually having many BNG requirements from their developers, then charging you £1,500 for a baseline survey. (i.e. are they just in the business of knocking out a £200 survey for £1,500, then never actually come up with any BNG customer for you.

Maybe find your own developer needing BNG, do a deal with them, then employ the ecologist for a survey and to fill out the BNG metric calculator. Suppose theoretically you need to baseline first so you know how many units you'll have for sale, but doesn't arable converted to species rich hay meadow provide an uplift of about 3 BNG units/ha, hopefully worth £20+k/unit IF you can get someone to pay that amount.

Environmental audits every few years to compare delivery with the BNG aims.


Think HMRC have said BNG land will get IHT relief from April 2025???

I'd guess a chunky upfront BNG payment will be a capital gain (rather than income tax), but don't know for certain. Strange one though, as the capital value of the land will be dramatically reduced on day 2 of the 30 year BNG agreement.

Need to account for 20+ % tax on that initial payment though.

to many sharks at this early stage i suspect with out a track record. reminds me of the RHI when it first came out, no one had a clue, it was expensive but the early bed then def got the worm!

What is the land currently?

on paper its arable but the reality is black grass!

 

[Regenerator1]

Townsends Exeter have some good guides to read and seem to know what is going on.

Townsend Chartered Surveyors

townsendcharteredsurveyors.co.uk

They cant sell BPS credits anymore so they tapped into BNG credits

 

[steveR]

Think HMRC have said BNG land will get IHT relief from April 2025???

I'd guess a chunky upfront BNG payment will be a capital gain (rather than income tax), but don't know for certain. Strange one though, as the capital value of the land will be dramatically reduced on day 2 of the 30 year BNG agreement.

Need to account for 20+ % tax on that initial payment though.

As an accountant I know described it, " a right bloody muddle"....