Boris Johnson unveils ‘grow for Britain’ plan

[Tarw Coch]

Yes, British ag can only exist if there's a migrant underclass to exploit with long hours low pay and substandard housing.

Or employers could attract British workers with proper pay and conditions.

Only if there’s enough profit in the job to pay those proper wages. I know nothing about the profitability of the labour intensive veg industry who employ large gangs of foreign labour but I thought they were being squeezed by the supermarkets who will quite happily import from elsewhere with lower costs if they can get it cheaper.
So is the money there to pay those better wages and conditions, I don’t know but if it isn’t good luck getting any extra out of the supermarkets to pay for it.

 

[Aspiring Peasants]

Only if there’s enough profit in the job to pay those proper wages. I know nothing about the profitability of the labour intensive veg industry who employ large gangs of foreign labour but I thought they were being squeezed by the supermarkets who will quite happily import from elsewhere with lower costs if they can get it cheaper.
So is the money there to pay those better wages and conditions, I don’t know but if it isn’t good luck getting any extra out of the supermarkets to pay for it.

This is the crux of the problem, not just in veg, the returns are to low., end of story

 

[bluebell]

Farming ,like other bussiness, have to make a profit? or hobby farm? the Agricultural stats paint a grim picture of falling output, production, such as a 12 per cent reduction so far in the last 10 years of the Uks suckler herd? And falling? pigs well who wants the aggro, worry with them? Alright for the RSPB stating that one of the massive lumps of land they farm in the lake district, the sheep flock has been reduced by them from 3,000 head to 300? But hey ho they dont farm for profit? they farm for birds? The tennant farmer next door to that, stated , he had a flock of 800, but profit at best was marginal and was fearful for the future? and also he didnt want to see his son take that on with all the work, worry et c etc? Now would any of these civil servants? Nature bodies, Natural England and many others be propared to do the work, and have the worry that that tennant farmer has and try to live on the modest profit it might make? No they want to work from home? work a five day week? company car, pension, etc etc, and above all, because its not their money? make a profit?

 

[Al R]

George useless on sky news at 7am today to talk about it, anyone watching - I’m already outside

 

[Grass And Grain]

Yes, British ag can only exist if there's a migrant underclass to exploit with long hours low pay and substandard housing.

Or employers could attract British workers with proper pay and conditions.

I'd like to think Brits will cut the veg. I'd like to think Brexit would mean migrant workers can't undercut our worker's wages (or keep them at minimum wage). I'd like to think veg pickers would then get a decent wage which pays appropriately relatively to how much hard work it is.

The above would be the ideal, but we know supermarkets won't pay for this when they can get a cauliflower flown in to the UK for £0.40. Also know a lettuce grower, he can't get the Brits to cut lettuce - they just won't do it, they last about a week, and don't return on Monday morning.

I even voted Brexit, so can't complain if there aren't any migrant veg pickers. I suspect Brexit has pushed up the wages for British lorry drivers etc.

So, currently it's either import the veg 'cos labour is cheaper abroad and more than negates the transport costs, or we look to allow migrant labour to cut our veg.

I don't at all disagree with your sentiment @unlacedgecko . Not at all. I don't like to see hard working British veg workers have their wages supressed by availability of cheap migrant workers, then they can't afford to live in our expensive economy.

Not sure what the best solution is. I think the best solution is to allow controlled numbers of migrant workers who can choose to work in any industry.

I also think, and this might be controversial, unemployed Brits should be offered a job of some sort (e.g. picking up litter from the road sides) at same rate as unemployment benefit. But if they won't take a job, then they don't get unemployment benefit. That should encourage them to go and get a job.

 

[Andrew1983]

BBC still manage to have a dig about meat production

I’m guessing the converting land to farms means taking grassland an putting poly tunnels on it as it seems they think growing a bit extra fruit is all we need.

As long as they are not protecting us by equalling standards on imports this whole thing means nothing for us as farmers imo, our own labour will still be either undervalued or outside labour to expensive to hire in. Our standard of production costs money. The way costs are just now the only way I can try and ensure my business survives is to take foot of the production pedal and coast. Reducing expensive inputs and lowering output but most importantly lowering the risk of getting caught with a crop/animal I can’t sell which has been grown at the extreme costs we are now trying to deal with.

 

[Hindsight]

I'd like to think Brits will cut the veg. I'd like to think Brexit would mean migrant workers can't undercut our worker's wages (or keep them at minimum wage). I'd like to think veg pickers would then get a decent wage which pays appropriately relatively to how much hard work it is.

The above would be the ideal, but we know supermarkets won't pay for this when they can get a cauliflower flown in to the UK for £0.40. Also know a lettuce grower, he can't get the Brits to cut lettuce - they just won't do it, they last about a week, and don't return on Monday morning.

I even voted Brexit, so can't complain if there aren't any migrant veg pickers. I suspect Brexit has pushed up the wages for British lorry drivers etc.

So, currently it's either import the veg 'cos labour is cheaper abroad and more than negates the transport costs, or we look to allow migrant labour to cut our veg.

I don't at all disagree with your sentiment @unlacedgecko . Not at all. I don't like to see hard working British veg workers have their wages supressed by availability of cheap migrant workers, then they can't afford to live in our expensive economy.

Not sure what the best solution is. I think the best solution is to allow controlled numbers of migrant workers who can choose to work in any industry.

I also think, and this might be controversial, unemployed Brits should be offered a job of some sort (e.g. picking up litter from the road sides) at same rate as unemployment benefit. But if they won't take a job, then they don't get unemployment benefit. That should encourage them to go and get a job.

Suppose same could be said for the M&S shirt factory in Skelmersdale closed in the 1990's and the other rag trade factories relocated to Bangladesh, Vietnam, China, or any other industry that fact. Farmers and growers who find cannot make veg pay will eventually, provided not bankrupted first, switch to a less cash / people intense crop - basically wheat which is valued and traded on a world market and (unless the UK government imposes export controls!) can be traded outwith the UK.

 

[Grass And Grain]

Suppose same could be said for the M&S shirt factory in Skelmersdale closed in the 1990's and the other rag trade factories relocated to Bangladesh, Vietnam, China, or any other industry that fact. Farmers and growers who find cannot make veg pay will eventually, provided not bankrupted first, switch to a less cash / people intense crop - basically wheat which is valued and traded on a world market and (unless the UK government imposes export controls!) can be traded outwith the UK.

Yes, same for all industries which can only compete with imports if they have access to cheap labour, and then they're constrained by the UK minimum wage. If we can't compete we import and our industries contract.

On the other hand, inflation has been kept lower because we import from low cost of production countries. Clothing, electronics, cut flowers (ok, so climate pays a part there), cheap tat from China, Dyson vacuum cleaners, etc.

 

[Hindsight]

Yes, same for all industries which can only compete with imports if they have access to cheap labour, and then they're constrained by the UK minimum wage. If we can't compete we import and our industries contract.

On the other hand, inflation has been kept lower because we import from low cost of production countries. Clothing, electronics, cut flowers (ok, so climate pays a part there), cheap tat from China, etc.

That has been the globalist liberal model. Worked well (?!) for 30 years. Maybe not working so well now. Hey ho. UK value of Sterling not helping. Has devalued against US Dollar and Euro in recent months. Hey ho.

 

[teslacoils]

Supermarkets, govt won't care until there is no food. Their attitude to growers going out of business is no more than a Gallic shrug.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

That artical is just stupid.

After castigating Nitrogen, he then admits that plants use natural processes in some cases to make Nitrogen.

There is no difference in Chemical Nitrogen or Natural Nitrogen - however I suspect it would take a significant amount of yield from crops for a plant to supply sugars to bacteria to create the reaction necessary to create Nitrogen via bacteria.

He also ignores the fact that Nitrogen in food, which was put on by farmers or gathered by the plant - is just dumped as waste in toilets and mixed with industrial waste - polluting rainwater immediately at properties. Not even an attempt to recycle.

But that would mean HMG/Environmentalists were at fault - they don't do taking responsibility, so it's always someone else's fault.

I haven't read the article, but I will point out that making Nitrogen fertliser does use Natural Gas which as a greenhouse gas we need to cut down it's use, and when applied to land does make it more acid, and plant breeders have spent years breeding plants that do well with bagged fertliser, if that same effort had gone into breeding plants that produce in an organic situation we may have increased the yields for organic farming too. I think the price of fertliser will limit it's use in future anyway, so we better learn to grow with less!

Also using artificial fertliser does cause the bacteria in the soil to burn up the stored organic matter, exactly the opposite that we need soil to do for not only it's own health, but also to counteract global climate change.

As far a recycling night soil, I think it definitely should be done, but I would only have sewage cake on the farm here if there were no microplastics or heavy metals (and I would worry about drug residues too), so until the general population sorts out what it eats and excretes, the water companies can keep off.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

I decided a while ago that it is little to do with either poor wages or lazy Brits. It is location. We fecked it up when we built on the market gardens and moved all of the veg growing to the middle of nowhere. Turn Heathrow into a market garden for London. Anything else is fannying about at the edge of the problem. Several problems.

In Denmark, there is a large market garden area next to Copenhagen in Amager

 

[Aspiring Peasants]

I heard on Radio 4 this morning that the NFU broadly welcome this report. Is that true? If it is I'm ending my membership today

 

[Ffermer Bach]

George useless on sky news at 7am today to talk about it, anyone watching - I’m already outside

Just caught some of what he said on Radio 4, he was talking about reducing Methane from livestock with feed additives. Firstly I don't believe animal methane is a problem, how about landfill gas? leakage from fossil fuel drilling? gas from rice paddies? But anyway, I have sheep on severely disadvantaged upland grazing, they don't eat anything except grass and silage (plus concentrates leading up to lambing), how does he propose I give them feed additives I wonder (if my sheep are really the cause of global warming!!!!!) ~Does he propose I keep three times as many, so that I can feed them concentrates all year, so they can get additives too?

 

[texelburger]

George useless on sky news at 7am today to talk about it, anyone watching - I’m already outside

I'm too scared to listen to him.His lack of knowledge is a little frightening.

 

[Aspiring Peasants]

I'm too scared to listen to him.His lack of knowledge is a little frightening.

But why are they getting away with it?

 

[JockCroft]

I haven't read the article, but I will point out that making Nitrogen fertliser does use Natural Gas which as a greenhouse gas we need to cut down it's use, and when applied to land does make it more acid, and plant breeders have spent years breeding plants that do well with bagged fertliser, if that same effort had gone into breeding plants that produce in an organic situation we may have increased the yields for organic farming too. I think the price of fertliser will limit it's use in future anyway, so we better learn to grow with less!

Also using artificial fertliser does cause the bacteria in the soil to burn up the stored organic matter, exactly the opposite that we need soil to do for not only it's own health, but also to counteract global climate change.

As far a recycling night soil, I think it definitely should be done, but I would only have sewage cake on the farm here if there were no microplastics or heavy metals (and I would worry about drug residues too), so until the general population sorts out what it eats and excretes, the water companies can keep off.

Ah, But Britain NEEDS!!!! the Co2 by-product from Nitrogen fertiliser production. What would we do without "Fiz" in soft drinks or the supermarket's need to preserve shelf life for their elongated supply chain.

Re Night Soil. Why process into cake. An interesting conversation with a recent ecology graduate, it could be used as a feed stock for production off enzymes/proteins for manufactured foods. e.g. artificial meat. Now would that put you off being a Vegan. He said he was vegan but looked far to healthy to be one.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

Ah, But Britain NEEDS!!!! the Co2 by-product from Nitrogen fertiliser production. What would we do without "Fiz" in soft drinks or the supermarket's need to preserve shelf life for their elongated supply chain.

Re Night Soil. Why process into cake. An interesting conversation with a recent ecology graduate, it could be used as a feed stock for production off enzymes/proteins for manufactured foods. e.g. artificial meat. Now would that put you off being a Vegan. He said he was vegan but looked far to healthy to be one.

I have an issue with the nutrient density of supermarket food and CO2 I guess is a part of this, farmers have been great at producing exactly what the market wants, food that looks good, and keeps well, but we need to concentrate on the nutrient density of food instead.

As far a pop goes, it is leading the charge to a metabolic disease epidemic, so be good for the country's health if we all gave up drinking it, I have.

 

[snarling bee]

The NFU are a joke. It’s just a bunch of conference w*nkers. Can add the NSA to that list. Jokers the lot of them.

I'd like you to elaborate why you think the NFU and the NSA are responsible for the Government's announcements?

Of all the anti NFU comments I have seen on this forum this is the most uninformed, ridiculous and insulting I have ever read. I can't believe it was even 'liked'. If you have nothing more interesting to say then do us and yourself a favour and don't say anything.

 

[wrenbird]

The main driver behind this seems to be keeping food as cheap as possible for the masses. Boris said that we need to grow more here to alleviate the cost of living crisis.
Minette Blatters told the BBC that it’s vital that food stays affordable.
No mention of how that is to be achieved when the cost of production is already greater than any likely return.
It is all talk of vast greenhouses and robot pickers, presumably run on unicorn poo and fairy dust, where you can spend £2 producing something you can flog for £1.