BPS/ELMS what am I missing?

[Hindsight]

He is building tree houses for holiday let’s in amongst the brambles & scrub. It could well make a more viable business than ‘farming’ 250ac of predominantly parkland?

A rewilding project might help with the planning side of tree houses as well. But only the locals can truly comment on that.

 

[steveR]

Not far from me at all.

Just make sure a few shot pheasants "land" near his treehouses...

 

[steveR]

There's many of the sock and sandal brigade appear clueless about what the result of rewilding will be. They imagine flowery meadows and fruit trees when the reality will be weeds and brambles. Then what?

I had that locally when I was Chair of the local PC, We had land and a couple of the Councillors were convinced that letting some Council land "go to nature" was the way forward.... I resigned after 20 years and can see the results now the ecowarriors are pushing their Agenda. I anticpate a call to sort it out, again with a big flail topper!!

 

[No wot]

It's his land to do what he wants with which is fine , the problem as I see it is that the tw#ts ( Government) in charge of our future ( farming) will take all this on board for future Ag policy and expect your average farm who doesn't have large rental incomes from a vast estate to do something similar

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

How on gods green earth is organic farming better for the environment than conventional farming!? In terms of carbon capture and trying to reach net zero its exactly the opposite to what is needed. Cultivating land numerous times to control weeds/pests etc releasing carbon every time you do is completely contradictory to what the government is trying to achieve Not to mention the massive increase in soil erosion this will cause!
I do agree that we will be 30-50% stewardship though.

That's what I used to think but the understorey / dd system might work. I'm giving it a try

 

[cornishfarmer]

If land gets re wilded could it lose its agricultural relief? Will soon change his mind if so

 

[bobk]

Will Natural England be running this joke .

 

[tepapa]

I find it quite amusing how rewinding is the best thing to benefit wildlife, when in reality, without some cattle mooching around to keep on top of scrub but more importantly to feed all the inveribrates that the birds and other animals need to thrive it's just a waste land.

 

[Matt]

How on gods green earth is organic farming better for the environment than conventional farming!? In terms of carbon capture and trying to reach net zero its exactly the opposite to what is needed. Cultivating land numerous times to control weeds/pests etc releasing carbon every time you do is completely contradictory to what the government is trying to achieve Not to mention the massive increase in soil erosion this will cause!
I do agree that we will be 30-50% stewardship though.

agree with organic farming point. I have the pleasure of combining a patch of organic wheat for a small organic veg farm, box scheme they have some livestock as well. for the 2 or 3 years that bit of ground is in veg production before livestock comes back around you have never seen such over worked lifeless soil.

 

[warksfarmer]

i really don't get where you are coming from with this. its perfectly possible, providing you are on reasonable potential soil to continue growing profitable crops without bps and not needing to go organic.

Yes with a reduced rent.

ELMS is going to ruin the rental and contract farming market because of the farmer/contractor cannot return more than what ELMS pays for doing very little then why would the landowner want the land farmed? The incentive will be to ‘not’ farm the land.

Wheat prices are going to drop by £80/t purely due to supply and demand over the next 2-3 years so 3.5t/ac at £150/t with no subsidy isn’t a long term viable business. Average wheat yield is still 3.3t/ac in the U.K.

 

[Hindsight]

Yes with a reduced rent.

ELMS is going to ruin the rental and contract farming market because of the farmer/contractor cannot return more than what ELMS pays for doing very little then why would the landowner want the land farmed? The incentive will be to ‘not’ farm the land.

Wheat prices are going to drop by £80/t purely due to supply and demand over the next 2-3 years so 3.5t/ac at £150/t with no subsidy isn’t a long term viable business. Average wheat yield is still 3.3t/ac in the U.K.

Well Warksfarmer we shall see how good this Conservative and Brexit Party is at forecasting. The removal of BPS is an ideological move. The view being it is a payment for the ownership and occupation of land. And in their publication two years ago forecast reductions in rental value, to correct the market for productive agriculture. Be a beggar if there own environmental policy deflects from this. Fascinating times. The point I would say to you is the pot of cash is only so much and at the moment seems a lot of organsiations looking to tap into it - so much so it may be thin gruel when ELMS finally appears. Hey ho. How much faith do you hve in the Tory Party??

 

[warksfarmer]

Well Warksfarmer we shall see how good this Conservative and Brexit Party is at forecasting. The removal of BPS is an ideological move. The view being it is a payment for the ownership and occupation of land. And in their publication two years ago forecast reductions in rental value, to correct the market for productive agriculture. Be a beggar if there own environmental policy deflects from this. Fascinating times. The point I would say to you is the pot of cash is only so much and at the moment seems a lot of organsiations looking to tap into it - so much so it may be thin gruel when ELMS finally appears. Hey ho. How much faith do you hve in the Tory Party??

As I’ve said before the figures offered in the pilot are substantial. Whether that gets rolled out to everybody is another matter but £176/ac for doing nothing sets the rent precedent. And a cfa has to guarantee that profit to the landowner every single year to compete.

 

[ajd132]

Yes with a reduced rent.

ELMS is going to ruin the rental and contract farming market because of the farmer/contractor cannot return more than what ELMS pays for doing very little then why would the landowner want the land farmed? The incentive will be to ‘not’ farm the land.

Wheat prices are going to drop by £80/t purely due to supply and demand over the next 2-3 years so 3.5t/ac at £150/t with no subsidy isn’t a long term viable business. Average wheat yield is still 3.3t/ac in the U.K.

Where is all the money going to come from for every acre to be in an elms scheme that’s pays higher than a cfa return? That’s a lot more money than current bps!

 

[farmerm]

As I’ve said before the figures offered in the pilot are substantial. Whether that gets rolled out to everybody is another matter but £176/ac for doing nothing sets the rent precedent. And a cfa has to guarantee that profit to the landowner every single year to compete.

How can the scheme possibly pay £176/ac, it is certainly not possible at a whole farm level!! £176/ac is nearly twice the rate of BPS and lets not forget, there are going to be significant additional fingers drawing from the pot - high administration costs, expensive reservoir creation grants and other capital grant schems, flood management schemes, and others landowners who where previously excluded from BPS claims... all will be drawing from this same pot of money. a pot which inflation will also be reducing in value in real terms. Maybe some bits of farms will be eligible for high payments but over whole farms the payments will have to average closer to £17.60/ac than £176/ac Or is there a magic money tree after all?

 

[ajd132]

How can the scheme possibly pay £176/ac, it is certainly not possible at a whole farm level!! £176/ac is nearly twice the rate of BPS and lets not forget, there are going to be significant additional fingers drawing from the pot - high administration costs, expensive reservoir creation grants and other capital grant schems, flood management schemes, and others landowners who where previously excluded from BPS claims... all will be drawing from this same pot of money. a pot which inflation will also be reducing in value in real terms. Maybe some bits of farms will be eligible for high payments but over whole farms the payments will have to average closer to £17.60/ac than £176/ac Or is there a magic money tree after all?

He keeps saying he’s in a pilot but I thought they hadn’t started yet? Maybe been to a few meetings..