Bps/sfi

[BrianV]

Isn't it the case like it's been for decades in the UK that if something is working well you can always rely on a UK government to balls it up, happens every time where ever you look, no difference in any of the three main parties they're all fecking useless!

 

[easy farming]

All this talk of no one taking up sfi how many can actually say they banked 100% of there bps and will be able to manage on zero sub going forward

 

[Two Tone]

i wouldn’t hold your breath

I am holding my breath.

Come on. Just think about it:
There is no way that SFI is going to survive, let alone properly get off the ground.
It is way too over-complicated and not fit for purpose.

There have been times when Defra has instructed the Banks not to be too hard on farmers.
The opposite may be about to happen.

How anybody with any sense, especially from outside our profession, could possibly imagine that SFI will succeed, is beyond comprehension!

SFI is a dead man walking that many of us are forced into for financial reasons, to keep going.
None of us give an ‘F’ what its ultimate goal for the environment is because we just want, or more likely need the ‘F’ing money!


Where else, literary, on earth have they come up with any similar scheme?
And when they look at the utter balls up we have made of it, they surely won’t even try!

 

[livestock 1]

I am holding my breath.

Come on. Just think about it:
There is no way that SFI is going to survive, let alone last.
It is way too over-complicated and not fit for purpose.

There have been times when Defra has instructed the Banks not to be too hard on farmers.
The opposite may be about to happen.

How anybody with any sense, especially from outside our profession, could possibly imagine that SFI will succeed, is beyond comprehension!

SFI is a dead man walking that many of us are forced into for financial reasons, to keep going.
None of us give an ‘F’ what its ultimate goal for the environment is because we just want, or more likely need the ‘F’ing money!


Where else, literary, on earth have they come up with any similar scheme?
And when they look at the utter balls up we have made of it, they surely won’t even try!

BPS was a struggle for them to administer this thing is so much more highly complicated I can’t see how they could do it all. Each farm will be 3x the work for them.

 

[livestock 1]

@Clive i’m I bit concerned about your comments regarding to what is productive land and what isn’t. You seem to forget the figures used for production doesn’t include what’s sold farm to farm it only includes finished products. Hill farms produce massive numbers of store and breeding stock which go for further feeding on lower lying farms.
Try to think about what you are saying on here

 

[Two Tone]

BPS was a struggle for them to administer this thing is so much more highly complicated I can’t see how they could do it all. Each farm will be 3x the work for them.

Precisely!

It’s a nightmare for us to examine, choose the options and apply for using the usual ‘hope’ in our calculations.
But it will be even more of a nightmare for Defra to administer and check than they have ever seen before.
Further proven by the fact that yet again, its roll out has been delayed.
And these two facts alone will bring forward its eventual demise.

The only ones of us that have the time to go through it and understand it, let alone believe that it is a way forward are those doing a feck sight less work than most of us are!

 

[Clive]

@Clive i’m I bit concerned about your comments regarding to what is productive land and what isn’t. You seem to forget the figures used for production doesn’t include what’s sold farm to farm it only includes finished products. Hill farms produce massive numbers of store and breeding stock which go for further feeding on lower lying farms.
Try to think about what you are saying on here

my comments always relate to the sector i understand - cereals

i know nothing much of the livestock sector beyond what i read on tff

don’t worry about my comments - i am just a arable farmer, not a policy maker or industry leader

 

[J 1177]

Isn't it the case like it's been for decades in the UK that if something is working well you can always rely on a UK government to balls it up, happens every time where ever you look, no difference in any of the three main parties they're all fecking useless!

Pretty much

 

[Bossfarmer]

is that a bad thing ? produce food more intensifying where soils / climate suits and off set with subs to improve environment on land where soils / climates make that economic food production more marginal or even impossible ?

…… i suspect this is very intentional

depends how you look at it....china and japan do the exact opposite subsidising very marginal ground on hillsides etc so it can grow crop so they can be more self sufficient for food security, this is surely the whole point of farming?

were buying in food from ukraine etc which could be going to starving africans but yet we sing feed the world at christmas time...seems very wrong

 

[Jackov Altraids]

i don’t think i it’s a mess at all, it’s way better than bps in terms of tax payer value

bps was just plain wrong imo - handing tax payers cash to wealthy landowners ……. can’t see labour wanting to bring that back !!!!

I'm not defending area based payments per se, but I can't fathom any possible way that SFI, in it's current format can possibly be considered as better in terms of tax payer value apart from the fact the 'pot' value itself has devalued by half.

 

[livestock 1]

There’s some notion that we are safe security wise to import food due to us being seemingly richer than some of the other countries who also import food. Putin is in the process of dismantling that western wealth by exposing our underwritten invisible value on money or underwriters even. I feel that’s why the government is so keen on this carbon offset because it’s another way to prop up the pound. If he gets his way he won’t be letting us import from Ukraine even if we push him back it still makes our security of imports doubtful due to the major catastrophic upset in the future. He’s on making good friends in Africa who he is going to be dealing with since he’s decided to isolate the west.
Out food policy is a shambles looking at all this they all want a bloody good kick up the arse.
As farmers we all need to prepare for future years something our leadership and unions can’t do.

 

[farmerm]

To a certain extent SFI isn't actually that great as you have to spend ever so much to get something back

Isn't that great... understatement or what

 

[farmerm]

lot of arable will go out of production (33% here will and im sure i won’t be alone in that !) and we already export feed wheat so uk has been long short of enough livestock to eat it

i’m not saying this is good. …….. but it is reality

How many farms putting 33% of the farm into wildlife seed options does it take before the scheme runs out of money?

 

[Clive]

How many farms putting 33% of the farm into wildlife seed options does it take before the scheme runs out of money?

ask a policy maker !

 

[Clive]

depends how you look at it....china and japan do the exact opposite subsidising very marginal ground on hillsides etc so it can grow crop so they can be more self sufficient for food security, this is surely the whole point of farming?

were buying in food from ukraine etc which could be going to starving africans but yet we sing feed the world at christmas time...seems very wrong

we already import most of our food - sfi doesn't change that

not much I can se in sfi options isn't reversible if maximising food production again was ever needed ................... but fact is right now imports are cheaper and plentiful

Reduced supply should be good for those still set on food production, it should lead to better prices for them to some extent, certainly on none commoditised, higher value , niche product

 

[Clive]

BPS was a struggle for them to administer this thing is so much more highly complicated I can’t see how they could do it all. Each farm will be 3x the work for them.

BPS was a doddle after initial teething problems - it took literally minutes to complete and we were paid promptly every year


any news system will have issues to sort

 

[farmerm]

unless output / input prices change significantly i wouldn’t be surprised if uk osr and bean acreage was less than 100k acres within the next few years - i just can see no reason to grow these crops anymore when there are sfi options that offer greater gross margin risk free ?

Lots of schools to rebuild and war materials to fund... Gov can't be seen to be allowing wealthy land owners to make "excessive" profit from wildlife services. How long do you suppose until someone in government gets the calculator out and reduces any overly "attractive" payment rates... I can see payment rates flexing with demand.. if take up of some options ends up high and hungry on the shrinking budget, what may be an attractive payment rate today could be slashed and look far less appealing next year..

ask a policy maker !

Policy maker or someone responsible for turning fantasy policy into something that very vaguely fits the brief after the constraints of reality have been accounted for...

 

[livestock 1]

BPS was a doddle after initial teething problems - it took literally minutes to complete and we were paid promptly every year


any news system will have issues to sort

No it wasn’t. They had issues one year which was a bad year for livestock farming it was paid months late due to IT issues some of my friends were paid late regularly

 

[livestock 1]

Sucker cow payments sheep headage payments and the rest were paid promptly

 

[livestock 1]

BPS was a doddle after initial teething problems - it took literally minutes to complete and we were paid promptly every year


any news system will have issues to sort

I’m not sure why you keep coming up with this false information. We’ve just had this discussion and minutes later you are off again