Bull for a few sucklers

[gavd]

Just sold our stock bull as too many of his daughters in the herd now. What do people do when running a bull with say 20-25 cows and keeping replacements? Change bull every few years? Buy in replacements? Would like to keep the herd closed apart from bulls due to disease risk and don’t really have time for AI!

 

[Rob Garrett]

Just sold our stock bull as too many of his daughters in the herd now. What do people do when running a bull with say 20-25 cows and keeping replacements? Change bull every few years? Buy in replacements? Would like to keep the herd closed apart from bulls due to disease risk and don’t really have time for AI!

Asking myself the same questions. Our old bull is 9 years old, brought him second hand from a lad because of breeding back. Some of his daughters were going to next doors bull this summer but dry spell frazzled grass so never happened. Was thinking AI but old bull had other thoughts & jumped in with heifers!

Ideal for me would be buy in replacement heifers from know breeder (BVD tag & test), put to terminal bull, don't keep replacements, if only I had the cash to do it!

 

[Skintagain]

You can hire one but disease risk and it’s a dear do imo. Otherwise buy one for two grand and sell him after couple of years for similar money. Even as a cull still going to be a grand. It will be at least £500 to hire one I would have thought

 

[M-J-G]

If you want to buy in the fewest numbers possible and AI isn't an option changing the bull is the only option.

It's less risk bringing in 1 animal every 2 or 3 years than it is to buy in several animals every year plus having to change a bull every few years anyway.

I would say it's better to keep the best of your own heifers for replacements than to buy someone else's second rate heifers.

 

[wellingtonfarmer]

Just sold our stock bull as too many of his daughters in the herd now. What do people do when running a bull with say 20-25 cows and keeping replacements? Change bull every few years? Buy in replacements? Would like to keep the herd closed apart from bulls due to disease risk and don’t really have time for AI!

I have a Saler bull for Sale if interested?

 

[le bon paysan]

Change him every 2 years. As @Skintagain said, probably the best way to do it.

 

[Agrivator]

If he's a good bull with few if any faults, what is stopping you continuing to use hm on his daughters? It will increase the number of cattle which are homozygous for valuable traits. And if the bull is quiet, so much the better.

In-breeding a good line is the easiest way of making genetic improvement in a closed herd or flock. If by chance you find that his offspring have two heads or other undesirable recessive traits, just put it down to experience, and replace him.

 

[49801]

Would you chance dabble in some AI with objective of replacement heifers. You don’t have to 100% commit to AI and still have a stock bull. Try it for a couple years. Key really is an accommodating AI technician. Even a neighbor who does diy AI might suit. Just don’t get too hung up on buying expensive straws. Even the basic straws have great genetics to start dabbling.

 

[M-J-G]

If he's a good bull with few if any faults, what is stopping you continuing to use hm on his daughters? It will increase the number of cattle which are homozygous for valuable traits. And if the bull is quiet, so much the better.

In-breeding a good line is the easiest way of making genetic improvement in a closed herd or flock. If by chance you find that his offspring have two heads or other undesirable recessive traits, just put it down to experience, and replace him.

That works both ways, the down side being that he may have a fault that is not apparent yet, and by in breeding it you stamp a fault.

 

[AftonShepherd]

How common are deformities in close relations. We are down to 2 bulls for 70 cows, and normally bull for 9 weeks total swapping after 6. Next year I'll have heifers that would be going to their sire for the last 3 weeks. Only a small chance of getting in calf to him, but still a chance.

Can't decide whether to risk an issue, or risk leaving the heifers with the other bull for full 9 weeks and hope he's working ok. Bulls are tested beforehand every year but that's not 100% guarantee.

 

[The Ruminant]

How common are deformities in close relations. We are down to 2 bulls for 70 cows, and normally bull for 9 weeks total swapping after 6. Next year I'll have heifers that would be going to their sire for the last 3 weeks. Only a small chance of getting in calf to him, but still a chance.

Can't decide whether to risk an issue, or risk leaving the heifers with the other bull for full 9 weeks and hope he's working ok. Bulls are tested beforehand every year but that's not 100% guarantee.

From memory, I think there is a 7% chance of problems from inbreeding

 

[sticky]

Look around, there must be people in a similar situation to you perhaps you could find someone to swap with.

 

[Agrivator]

From memory, I think there is a 7% chance of problems from inbreeding

Within pure breeds of cattle, most pedigree animals are related anyway. The smaller the population, the closer the relationship. And in the Limousin breed, the most numerous beef breed in the UK?, there are only a handful of sires widely used.

Just go to H&H website and download a Limousin bull-sale catalogue to confirm that most bulls are bred from sires from only a handful of pedigree herds.

One benefit is that an unregistered Limousin bull at £2000 can (with a bit of luck) produce suckled calves just as good as those by a 6000 gns Limousin bull from one of the top herds.

 

[Werzle]

Just sold our stock bull as too many of his daughters in the herd now. What do people do when running a bull with say 20-25 cows and keeping replacements? Change bull every few years? Buy in replacements? Would like to keep the herd closed apart from bulls due to disease risk and don’t really have time for AI!

See plenty of bulls at cull price that would do your job , buy one , use him for a season or two and move him on. Before tb , disease and movements became such a hassle i would let local small herds with autumn calvers have my bulls for the winter just to keep them out of my way until i needed them in the spring

 

[wdah/him]

we run two bulls and try to change every 2 1/2 years we calf oct/nov and mar/april/may. only change one bull at a year. we find that buying young and selling about 4-5 year old there is little to add to it for the next bull as he is still young enough to do someone else and he has grown out and his calves can be seen, normally end up as a sweeper bull for a milk herd i think. Keep to long and the only market is the cull, however we are in NI so maybe different market demand as we are a small island with alot of livestock farmers

 

[Woolless]

Synchronise your best cows and AI them for replacements, so minimise hassle and use your stock bull as a terminal sire/sweeper? Just mulling over this myself as establishing a suckler herd of similar size.

 

[Pan mixer]

I had this dilemma, expanded to 40 or so cows and bought a second bull, I was planning to ai a few cows before a couple of fields came up next door.

Changing bulls every couple of years is expensive, particularly if you are buying a young bull who may not be up to the job in year 1, hiring bulls is dangerous as is buying someone elses cast off.

Ideally find someone with a sinilar problem, similar views on breeding and biosecurity and work in with them?

 

[Hesstondriver]

AI an older cow that’s due for cull (through age not an undesirable trait) and then keep her bull calf as a new stock bull . And weight him in every few years. It might not be fashion to run a xbred bull but your a small herd that needs every bit of help to turn a profit .

 

[Extreme Optimist]

Calve AYR here and use 2 bulls on 150 cows + 40 heifers. Closed herd. I change each bull after 2 years of work. I buy young bulls that have never seen work before and when they arrive on the farm, I quarantine them with 15 heifers for 8 weeks and then PD. If there is a disease outbreak the bull and heifers would all go fat - fortunately that has not happened so far! The last bull I bought (17 months old) had 14 out of 15 in calf in the first 4 weeks.
Best advice is to buy early, put in withheifers well away from the rest of the herd.

 

[M-J-G]

Synchronise your best cows and AI them for replacements, so minimise hassle and use your stock bull as a terminal sire/sweeper? Just mulling over this myself as establishing a suckler herd of similar size.

You can get some shockingly bad results with synchronisation, particularly with repeats.

If you have a good bull and good health status a bull can often appreciate in value.
I find the easiest bulls to sell are those where you can show a punter a couple of crops of calves.