Business rates

[Exfarmer]

I understood that any building once it pays business rates always has to pay rates until it is demolished. So if you lease a building , say a grain store to be used as a workshop then it is liable for rates until demolition, as it is not sallowed to return to its former use, is that correct?
Apparently a business man in the North West has been leasing office blocks and converting them to " snail farms" to avoid large rates bills. These farms have up to 15 pairs of snails kept in small crates. There snails are apparently "harvested" for sale every few weeks

 

[Bongodog]

Havne't had any dealings with business rates appeals for many years, but when I did challenge it was possible to get your listing altered. The assessors though were very hard people so I would say they wouldn't take the snail farm idea very well.

 

[Flatland guy]

I have known one person to get them removed but it took six years after retiring/ ceasing trading but during that time he still had to pay up till got them removed but is a slow drawn out process.

 

[Little squeak]

It's just brought to attention of Politicians looking for more tax revenue that agriculture isn't liable for business rates (yet)

 

[steveR]

I understood that any building once it pays business rates always has to pay rates until it is demolished. So if you lease a building , say a grain store to be used as a workshop then it is liable for rates until demolition, as it is not sallowed to return to its former use, is that correct?
Apparently a business man in the North West has been leasing office blocks and converting them to " snail farms" to avoid large rates bills. These farms have up to 15 pairs of snails kept in small crates. There snails are apparently "harvested" for sale every few weeks

Tax avoidance scam seemed to be the essence of the article I read, calling them Ag buildings!

 

[steveR]

Havne't had any dealings with business rates appeals for many years, but when I did challenge it was possible to get your listing altered. The assessors though were very hard people so I would say they wouldn't take the snail farm idea very well.

They didn't....

 

[mixedfmr]

I understood that any building once it pays business rates always has to pay rates until it is demolished. So if you lease a building , say a grain store to be used as a workshop then it is liable for rates until demolition, as it is not sallowed to return to its former use, is that correct?
Apparently a business man in the North West has been leasing office blocks and converting them to " snail farms" to avoid large rates bills. These farms have up to 15 pairs of snails kept in small crates. There snails are apparently "harvested" for sale every few weeks

Not sure if he isnt trying to avoid IH Tax through the APR loophole ( as it was put ), But only been doing it one year

 

[Roger Perry]

I have known one person to get them removed but it took six years after retiring/ ceasing trading but during that time he still had to pay up till got them removed but is a slow drawn out process.

Went at a snails pace you might say..!

 

[mobileweld]

In a similar situation here.. small farm, some buildings currently used for stables. 3rd party runs this. She pays a rent to the farm. Council have approached and want business rates for equine part.

What happens if the rates are too high for the 3rd party to continue so she calls it a day. Are we then stuck with a rateable building? Not keen on having anyone else as tennant, if the current one can’t make it work then buildings will go back to being empty ex pig buildings.

 

[Exfarmer]

In a similar situation here.. small farm, some buildings currently used for stables. 3rd party runs this. She pays a rent to the farm. Council have approached and want business rates for equine part.

What happens if the rates are too high for the 3rd party to continue so she calls it a day. Are we then stuck with a rateable building? Not keen on having anyone else as tennant, if the current one can’t make it work then buildings will go back to being empty ex pig buildings.

that is exactly as I understood it

 

[MrNoo]

Got the same here, had three small storage units, originally they fell under the rateable value in square foot area, they changed this so billed me now for rates, £2.5k each unit. After speaking to a lady at the Council (who was as helpful as a chocolate fireguard) I'm stuck with them. However I do know a chap who does ratings for HMRC and he did say I can appeal etc so am just about to go through this process. It's an utter ball ache especially as the units are currently empty.

 

[Daddy Pig]

In a similar situation here.. small farm, some buildings currently used for stables. 3rd party runs this. She pays a rent to the farm. Council have approached and want business rates for equine part.

What happens if the rates are too high for the 3rd party to continue so she calls it a day. Are we then stuck with a rateable building? Not keen on having anyone else as tennant, if the current one can’t make it work then buildings will go back to being empty ex pig buildings.

Will almost certainly get 100% small business exemption. The council will be going to a lot of expense for absolutely no return ( unless things change in the next budget) but that could open a whole new can of worms putting hundreds of small firms out of business.

 

[Punch]

Was judging some years ago for an agricultural society, and the one farm business told us they were chopping and changing from business lets back to agricultural by stacking straw or parking machinery as and when they didn’t want to pay rates!
Seemed fast and loose and we could only judge on information provided. We thought they must’ve had a good relationship with local council
Doesn’t answer your question, as I don’t know if what they told us was correct.
I’d be interested in hearing right answer or seeing the government regulations!

 

[mobileweld]

Got the same here, had three small storage units, originally they fell under the rateable value in square foot area, they changed this so billed me now for rates, £2.5k each unit. After speaking to a lady at the Council (who was as helpful as a chocolate fireguard) I'm stuck with them. However I do know a chap who does ratings for HMRC and he did say I can appeal etc so am just about to go through this process. It's an utter ball ache especially as the units are currently empty.

Sorry to read your situation. Please keep us updated how you get on. All the best.

 

[Still Farming]

Welsh Assembly and The VOA (Valuation office authority) currently investigating NDR listings , holiday cottages etc etc and putting into Domestic rateing lists if they deem so.
Nightmare.

 

[warksfarmer]

I understood that any building once it pays business rates always has to pay rates until it is demolished. So if you lease a building , say a grain store to be used as a workshop then it is liable for rates until demolition, as it is not sallowed to return to its former use, is that correct?
Apparently a business man in the North West has been leasing office blocks and converting them to " snail farms" to avoid large rates bills. These farms have up to 15 pairs of snails kept in small crates. There snails are apparently "harvested" for sale every few weeks

I have removed change of use in the past successfully and this cancelled the business rates.

 

[Red Fred]

We rented our 10,000sq.ft covered yards out for a chap to keep his classic car collection but when he left after 15 years, we had 3 months free before falling liable for the full rates. As long as the place was empty and still a single unit, we had to pay and it was tricky finding anyone to have it. In the end, they wanted around £12k p.a.
We have since let out half to a charity who send tools to Africa and that has taken it right down, since charities are rate exempt, and we let them have it at a small rent and they help us with other work in the buildings. The other half has been let to a couple with a small business after they obtained retail permission, so that comes under small business relief since they gave up their other shop in town.
The valuer who came round also included the mezzanine floor area which covers half the yard and is hard to rent out, but I let our Archaeological Society use it for the library and equipment store so it is also exempt under the charity clause.

 

[Still Farming]

 

[yoki]

I have removed change of use in the past successfully and this cancelled the business rates.

I pay rates on the building which I run the shop out of.

It was originally a farm building which was then rated after a change of use to retail premises.

LPS have told me that if I ever cease trading, which I probably will sometime in the next few years, as long as I can demonstrate that there is no longer a business being run from there it can be changed back to agricultural use only and then de-rated.

 

[Still Farming]

I pay rates on the building which I run the shop out of.

It was originally a farm building which was then rated after a change of use to retail premises.

LPS have told me that if I ever cease trading, which I probably will sometime in the next few years, as long as I can demonstrate that there is no longer a business being run from there it can be changed back to agricultural use only and then de-rated.

The Valuation Office Agency is an ENGLISH Government department.
They are employed by The Welsh Senedd Government here to look at banding, listings and NDR and DR.
Totally different outcomes and methods applied applicable here to the detriment of all.
We be all moving to England soon.