Cereal farmers...how long will you carry on??

[T Hectares]

Good thread.
I am not ashamed to have 1 tractor HP per ACRE. But the value of that power is only £130 per HP. I keep a combine on 130hrs a year, but keep it 10 years. I bought a new SP sprayer 10 years ago but it will probably do another 10.
There are many ways to grow crops.

Have to agree with this, hp/ha and number of tractors is irrelevant, it's the cost of that hp that's important.

 

[Clive]

Have to agree with this, hp/ha and number of tractors is irrelevant, it's the cost of that hp that's important.

there are 2 measure of business efficiency that are relevant here

capital employed per acre farmed

cost of labour employed per acre farmed

how that cost is made up doesn't matter, there are many ways to skin a cat, What seem to be the case is that there is a massive gulf in the difference between those numbers on some UK cereal farmland thats made affordable because we receive subsidies

 

[snarling bee]

'kin 'ell enough already, have you not all got work to do

Finished harvest, almost finished cultivation, so weekend off.

 

[snarling bee]

How many acres of grain are you doing per year?

1350, 2 wheats and OSR (normally)

 

[Clive]

'kin 'ell enough already, have you not all got work to do

afraid not, weekend off for all as no soil moving to be done

 

[wellingtonfarmer]

there are 2 measure of business efficiency that are relevant here

capital employed per acre farmed

cost of labour employed per acre farmed

how that cost is made up doesn't matter, there are many ways to skin a cat, What seem to be the case is that there is a massive gulf in the difference between those numbers on some UK cereal farmland thats made affordable because we receive subsidies

Surely the only way to judge a business efficiency is profit that's what really matters!

 

[Clive]

Surely the only way to judge a business efficiency is profit that's what really matters!

of course but if you want to understand where profit comes from and how to maximise it you need to drill down into the components that make it possible

profit isn't always a measure of efficiency, it maybe impossible for a farm on poor performing land to be as profitable as a man farming grade 1 dirt despite being more efficient

 

[Drillman]

I reckon this farming lark is very simple providing you follow one golden rule.

If you can't do it well, don't do it at all or pay someone who can.

Think about it. I'm right!

 

[4course]

'kin 'ell enough already, have you not all got work to do

no, cant combine too wet, cant lead bales too wet, cant work land too wet ' cant sow any grass or catch/cover crop too wet cant bale straw too wet, cant have a family bbq too wet, not going to have a look round too wet, ah well will just have to turn to drink at least then can enjoy a wet glass, jamesons on ice will do

 

[Spud]

You can't be over kitted growing spuds !

I recall when we stoped growing them the ammount of stuff we no longer needed was quite surprising, very capital heavy job but at least (sometimes) your output per acre is a lot better than cereals even if the margin isn't always

You can actually be over kitted, believe it or not!

A couple of examples:

Some years ago now, we were running a 180hp tractor on RTK just for ridging, with two 140hp hire tractors on single tillers following. Bloody expensive. After some bargain basement experimenting, £11k bought a new 2 bed tiller, to which we fitted the existing ridgers, and pulled it straight into the ploughing with the rtk steered tractor. One of the single tillers became the new nematicide applicator, the other became headland/rough bits machine. One hire tractor dispensed with, the other much more effectively used. Tilling shallower a lot of the time too, because the harder clods are on the surface, and held in the plough, hence easier to smash. Better job, better for soil, output and costs.

A second harvester was bought in the awful 2012 season. Running this as a windrower rather than a harvester means we need one extra trailer, not two or three, because they are loaded twice as quick. It is also able to fill trailers if the main machine has a (rare, to be fair) breakdown, which a dedicated windrower wouldnt be able to. Output virtually doubled (second machine not as quick as main one), trailer costs up by 25-30% instead of 70-100%, just by changing the direction of the cart elevator!

You are correct regarding the amount of brass tied up in taty related kit though, after 2012 I had a nut and bolt pull apart of the enterprise and made some changes - I made a list of all the kit I wouldnt need if I wasnt growing spuds. I included tow of the 5 tractors (one old, one newer) and one of the three trailers, but neither forklift, no plough, sprayer or spreader (cos I'd still need all of those for other work) and I still got to near enough a grand per acre of spuds grown! #scary

 

[Spud]

I can see that contractors are a better fit on larger farms. First if you have a thousand plus acres to cut you can't afford to be to fussy over moisture and would be more inclined to crac on. Your handling and storage should be better able to take a high output combine. Above all big bills get the best service it's just a fact of life.

Its not the biggest accounts that get priority treatment here...its the fastest payers!

 

[Spud]

Good thread.
I am not ashamed to have 1 tractor HP per ACRE. But the value of that power is only £130 per HP. I keep a combine on 130hrs a year, but keep it 10 years. I bought a new SP sprayer 10 years ago but it will probably do another 10.
There are many ways to grow crops.

£190/hp here, two newer tractors, three older ones. Combine bought @10yo with under 2000hrs, kept for another 10yrs usually. Forklifts bought new and kept until unreliable or we have a good year! (currently 11 and 15yo, both 9-10000hrs)

Why is it zero labour? You mean zero PAID labour. Surely as you are also a consultant, the opportunity cost of your labour is high.
I assume your COP on OSR, SpBarley and SpBeans is also less than their value?

Definitely agree here. Similarly, I will pay a tradesman to do a job I am crap at, because its better value, and my time is better spent doing what I do best.

I know small efficient farms, and small very inefficient ones. I know large very efficient, and large inefficient ones. Its very interesting studying them and seeing what can be learnt to alter and improve our activities. This ere thread is a useful extension of that!

 

[unlacedgecko]

I have no self propelled stuff.

The items with an engine that I run:
A NH7.235 (2015) - full spec.
JCB telehandler.
Quad bike.
Double cab pick up.

That's it.

Why do I need any more? It would be a waste. I just don't get why this isn't believable.

What do you use the quad for if you have no stock?

 

[Clive]

What do you use the quad for if you have no stock?

Slugs and crop "walking" is the normal use of a quad on a arable farm

 

[sleepy]

Reading this thread I can't help but think if all the effort that is channelled into reducing costs as much as possible, was instead piped into selling the end product for as much money as possible, farmers in general would be a lot better off.
What other industry spends the whole time wondering how cheaply they can produce something?

 

[unlacedgecko]

Slugs and crop "walking" is the normal use of a quad on a arable farm

Thanks. My arable experience is limited to a season grain carting.

But I'm very much enjoying the discussion. There is plenty that can apply to my own chosen area.

 

[unlacedgecko]

Reading this thread I can't help but think if all the effort that is channelled into reducing costs as much as possible, was instead piped into selling the end product for as much money as possible, farmers in general would be a lot better off.
What other industry spends the whole time wondering how cheaply they can produce something?

I'll agree that maybe farmers should do more to add value and increase sale price.

Re cost cutting, it's at the heart of almost every successful production industry. Look at LEAN methodology and Six Sigma as applied to manufacturing and logistics.

 

[Crex]

Reading this thread I can't help but think if all the effort that is channelled into reducing costs as much as possible, was instead piped into selling the end product for as much money as possible, farmers in general would be a lot better off.
What other industry spends the whole time wondering how cheaply they can produce something?

Every industry?

 

[sleepy]

Every industry?

Maybe I didn't explain myself very well. Of course if there are easy 'wins' to reduce your costs you should take them, but most of the time it's far easier to put your prices up and justify it with some new feature (that may actually increase your costs slightly).

In a farming situation, you could spends years fine tuning an arable operation to get your cop down to 80/ton.
Or you could invest in some bagging machine, and sell 20kg bags of grain to smallholders for £1000/ton. You won't then give a flying f**k if your cop is 80/ton or 180/ton.

 

[unlacedgecko]

Maybe I didn't explain myself very well. Of course if there are easy 'wins' to reduce your costs you should take them, but most of the time it's far easier to put your prices up and justify it with some new feature (that may actually increase your costs slightly).

In a farming situation, you could spends years fine tuning an arable operation to get your cop down to 80/ton.
Or you could invest in some bagging machine, and sell 20kg bags of grain to smallholders for £1000/ton. You won't then give a flying fudge if your cop is 80/ton or 180/ton.

Cost cutting is a whole industry in its own right.