Claydon

[Elmsted]

Whilst the Claydon is a kinda all right drill. To now claim on here that it mitigates against alleged climate change seems to push the envelope of marketing beyond reasonable bounds. Forum views please.

 

[Clive]

A bold claim indeed but I guess it's a step in the right direction re carbon sequestration vs more traditional methods ?

 

[Feldspar]

I have not seen any evidence that strip-till (or strip-drill or whatever it's called) leads to carbon sequestration, especially just by itself (i.e. with no cover crops). Even no-till is questionable. Looking at some of our fields after drilling with the Claydon there is still a lot of soil movement which will be oxidising carbon. I suppose you could argue that the rate of carbon depletion in the soil compared to ploughing might be slower but still negative.

I think you could argue that it may reduce run-off and might be better for wildlife (having access to stubbles overwinter and such like), but I cannot see that it will mitigate against climate change by locking up carbon in the soil.

 

[Clive]

I have not seen any evidence that strip-till (or strip-drill or whatever it's called) leads to carbon sequestration, especially just by itself (i.e. with no cover crops). Even no-till is questionable. Looking at some of our fields after drilling with the Claydon there is still a lot of soil movement which will be oxidising carbon. I suppose you could argue that the rate of carbon depletion in the soil compared to ploughing might be slower.

I think you could argue that it may reduce run-off and might be better for wildlife (having access to stubbles overwinter and such like), but I cannot see that it will mitigate against climate change by locking up carbon in the soil.

Surely any reduced tillage is reduced oxidation and therefore less co2 ?

 

[Feldspar]

Surely any reduced tillage is reduced oxidation and therefore less co2 ?

Yes, as I said it might slow the rate of decline, but I don't think it will do much more than that. You can say that reduction in the rate mitigates against climate change to a degree. I wonder though, how much of the decline of carbon in soils is factored into the current models anyway. If they haven't thought about it and have assumed there's no change then, unless you actually start locking up C, there will be no improvement upon current predictions.

 

[Clive]

Yes, as I said it might slow the rate of decline, but I don't think it will do much more than that. You can say that reduction in the rate mitigates against climate change to a degree. I wonder though, how much of the decline of carbon in soils is factored into the current models anyway. If they haven't thought about it and have assumed there's no change then, unless you actually start locking up C, there will be no improvement upon current predictions.

But isn't extra co2 in the atmosphere blamed by many for climate change ? Or am I missing the point ?

 

[Feldspar]

But isn't extra co2 in the atmosphere blamed by many for climate change ? Or am I missing the point ?

No, I was typing too quickly and being unclear. I think the claim the the Claydon mitigates against climate change depends on whether you can show that it results in less CO2 ending up in the atmosphere. I've seen studies that do this for no-till (and some that say the opposite), but I haven't seen anything similar for strip-till. I am therefore unconvinced at present even though the claim seems plausible.

 

[shakerator]

No till for long term bottom line

B*gger everything else

 

[Rob Holmes]

I think you've all mis-understood,

The impression i get is that using a Claydon (or any other strip/no till drill) enables you to get the work done in a quicker, more timely manner and is weather proof for when we get these wet autumns / challanging years (Climate change???)

Not about carbon release causing climate change

 

[Clive]

I think you've all mis-understood,

The impression i get is that using a Claydon (or any other strip/no till drill) enables you to get the work done in a quicker, more timely manner and is weather proof for when we get these wet autumns / challanging years (Climate change???)

View attachment 32202

Tbh I hadn't even see the ad ! Just answering @Elmsted question ! But make more sense now you say that

 

[Feldspar]

I think you've all mis-understood,

The impression i get is that using a Claydon (or any other strip/no till drill) enables you to get the work done in a quicker, more timely manner and is weather proof for when we get these wet autumns / challanging years (Climate change???)

Not about carbon release causing climate change

View attachment 32202

Yes, I read it exactly the same as you Rob. I don't think they're talking about climate change at all.

 

[Elmsted]

Whilst I appreciate not being UK based and hence might have a different understanding of an advert. If I might also mention another UK drill maker starting with with an M and coloured orange.When a small 4 metre drill needs as advertised about 300 hp up front I worrz that mz predictions of a decade or more ago are comming home to roost along with the M claim that it improves creates organic matter and fertilit it improves zeilds.

Along with other makers the concept of no till, strip till is being marketed and in manz cases just ticks the boxes of concept over real facts. But heck we all feel better.

Tipographic errors due to kezboard glitch.

 

[charlie@horizon]

@Elmsted

Rob Holmes is completely right, the message we are trying to portray in that advert is how our customers can get the job done a lot quicker so when these drilling windows are shorter Claydon customers should be drilled up. Please don't read too much into it.

Claydon Hybrid's are not 'kinda alright drills' they're incredibly good drills that we're extremely proud of

 

[Niels]

Goodoh, job done, topic shut. Before we get any more senseless 'bash the ... drill' stuff.

 

[SilliamWhale]

I think less tillage has the potential to build more soil carbon and reduce c02 emissions. That said I wouldn't say its worth hanging your hat on because nitrogen use tends to blast any ghg reduction of c02 out of the water by n02 emissions.

I think its too complex to make any claims with regard to using less tillage in growing annual crops to have an impact on ghg emissions. Even if theoretically it were probable.

 

[Elmsted]

Thank you Claydon family for the explanation. I am pleased that you took the time to make a very valid comment. However. As a native English speaker I am sure you can see how the claim can be misinterpreted. It is pleasing to see a resurgent UK drill making industry. The scale of which has totaly been unseen since the MF and parmiter.

Whereas the MF 30 or Moore where global products it seems that UK drill makers currently compete with each other, but basicaly Mzuri, Sumo, Claydon are well engined solutions to UK conditions. And all justifiy a place upon a farm. They to an extent have to compete with imports which are global in scope as the Clive thread on re-building a JD or my soon to be Morris versus Seed hawk planters thread. Plus singulators from Great Plains.
Surely transport widths aside volume is driven by demand and availability. At this time I do not see a UK made drill that gives me a solution.

Neils I think you might have suffered from misinterpretation and hence are less than best pleased by what you regard as bash the drill stuff.

 

[Niels]

Elmsted; speaking from a Claydon point of view they have gone much further since creating a market for strip till drills in the UK since 1999 and getting people warmed up. Global export figures are now rapidly outgrowing sales in the UK/Ireland. I think this has to do with 2 reasons. First is they offer a solution for establishing crops in climates with high annual rainfall (1000mm+). These people (speaking from my own experience) are not (currently) looking for a direct drill as it will only give a good crop 3 out of 10 times whereas a strip till drill gives a good yield 7 out of 10 times and the other 3 times it'll be perhaps average to good. Second reason is that Claydon offer a 'small' machine which most major manufacturers are pushing aside. It is more common for them to focus on 6 and 8 metres plus wider than 3 and 4. There is still a very large market share for these machines, especially where the farms are small.

I can understand your question and it is good that all is explained. The topic shouldn't be more than that though, or at least not about who is best and who is not.

 

[SilliamWhale]

looking for a direct drill as it will only give a good crop 3 out of 10 times whereas a strip till drill gives a good yield 7 out of 10 times and the other 3 times it'll be perhaps average to good.

 

[Niels]

Fact not fiction speaking from my point of view over here. Still, a drill or drilling method is only as good as the man behind it.

 

[Clive]

Fact not fiction speaking from my point of view over here. Still, a drill or drilling method is only as good as the man behind it.

No till isnt a drilling method, it's a farming technique

There in I suspect lies your problem