Cogent

[applejack]

So all us poor dairy farmers who have bought this genomic semen never get the chance to buy from a proven bull who HAS made the grade! We're quite happy if we find a bull we like to use him over 2-3 seasons and we won't be able to do that if they are all one season wonders, unless we buy a lot up front! We're only the sodding customers.

+1

 

[Cows 'n grass]

I use viking genetics.
Right now they have
23 holstein bulls on the plan - zero are proven
19 scandinavian red bulls - zero proven
9 jersey bulls - zero proven
and 10 red holsteins, also zero proven.
So the national company in Denmark don't sell proven bulls to danish farmers any more.
They do keep the old bulls around, as thats what they can sell on the export market they say.
The bulls we use nationally are usually between 10 and 15 month old, then a new and better comes along.

It will be intersting to see if the masterplan holds up. They promise close to 4 index points improvement/year with this plan, which is a lot.

Viking still sell quite a few proven bulls over here as well as some genomic ones.

Do you use all Viking genetics or would you use some Norwegian reds as well? Geno are pushing the Norwegians quite hard over here and obviously claim to be far superior to the Viking reds.

 

[Sid]

No no no genomic bulls used here. I want a proven bull used on a proven COW not a heifer

 

[Whitepeak]

So all us poor dairy farmers who have bought this genomic semen never get the chance to buy from a proven bull who HAS made the grade! We're quite happy if we find a bull we like to use him over 2-3 seasons and we won't be able to do that if they are all one season wonders, unless we buy a lot up front! We're only the sodding customers.

Previously with only parent average a lot of bulls would be sold on test/young bull with only a handful getting a first crop proof good enough to market. How many test bulls have you used that never got a proof? Now with genomics those bulls that wouldn't make the grade proven never have semen taken, a genomic proof is pretty close to a first crop proof reliability wise.
But I agree it won't be good if it ends up we have no proven bulls available

 

[applejack]

The problem as I see it @Sid is that choice is gradually being taken away from us and where the likes of Cogent go Genus will probably follow and then we're left with the smaller independent company which I'm quite happy to deal with but choice will be somewhat limited.

 

[Princess Pooper]

Previously with only parent average a lot of bulls would be sold on test/young bull with only a handful getting a first crop proof good enough to market. How many test bulls have you used that never got a proof? Now with genomics those bulls that wouldn't make the grade proven never have semen taken, a genomic proof is pretty close to a first crop proof reliability wise.
But I agree it won't be good if it ends up we have no proven bulls available

yes, we've always done our fair share of testing young bulls through Visions but most of the herd put to a high reliability bull. We are happy to use a higher % genomic than the % young bulls we used to use, but there still want to mainly use a proven bulls and nothing like the number to choose from that we have seen in the past (especially as we only use sexed).

 

[More to life]

The best genomic Bulls will always be kept as they sell right up until they get a proof I'm not saying an odd one might get missed. There are more Bulls than ever before to buy it's just the gap between top and bottom has got bigger. Cogent have produced very few top Bulls over the years I'd say that today's line up would be one of there best. They don't sell wws any more but you can still buy them direct.

 

[Beef farmer]

Off topic, but what do you have to pay for a tech to serve a cow(s)

 

[coomoo]

10.50 here, needless to say it's all diy now

 

[Beef farmer]

10.50 here, needless to say it's all diy now

Makes rms look bearable.

Thank you.

 

[Cows 'n grass]

LIC wanted 7 to come in here. Genus were cheaper if using 100% their straws but way more if using other companies.

 

[William Mellor]

Off topic, but what do you have to pay for a tech to serve a cow(s)

Genus want £14 to come here

 

[sidjon]

Genus £4 , lic £7 but they have higher conception rate on my cows.

 

[William Mellor]

Genus have about 45% of the semen market and cogent have about 27% and the smaller ai companies make up the rest, was told this by cogent rep.
Off topic again but what does everyone else use as heat detection? Who supplies milk progestrone tests, heard a lot about them but don't know who supply's them? Using kamars but find that the cows can easily set them off by rubbing against cubicles or walls, find the same problem with tail paint.

 

[Rossymons]

I swiped some tail chalk off a genus bloke one day. Its pretty good.

Ive used FiL paint before but it does get everywhere - mind, i can bet filthy having a bath so it might just be me.

Heatime is good but ive found the collars break for a hobby.

The milk tests sound like a faff - i dont know anyone who uses them nor have I seen them advertised for a while.

 

[hardup]

Google ridgeway science

 

[O'Reilly]

I had birds pecking the kamars apart on heifers last autumn!

 

[William Mellor]

I had birds pecking the kamars apart on heifers last autumn!

Doesn't surprise me, my heifers just chew them off one another, started just using tail pain on heifers now, but still get the odd one that washes it off. Kamars have picked up a lot of silent cows that I wouldn't of other wise served and then get pd+

 

[Holsteinfriesian90]

Well I have a copy now of the new Cogent holstein brochure, plenty of bulls to choose from but hang on a minute there are only eight proven , I know they've lost their tie up with World wide sires and I don't mind using one or two genomic choices but I will probably be shouted down here. A bull bred from an uncalved heifer out of a possible one lactation wonder doesn't fill me with the greatest confidence.

And then the price, a semen rep said to me recently they couldn't believe what farmers were happy to pay for unproven genetics.

Had the cogent rep around this week and was saying that in not many years time they won't keep hardly any proven Bulls not unless they are pretty special due to room and cost. Looks like most companies will go this way judging by how many genomic Bulls they have on there list it's nearly to many.

 

[happycows]

Had the cogent rep around this week and was saying that in not many years time they won't keep hardly any proven Bulls not unless they are pretty special due to room and cost. Looks like most companies will go this way judging by how many genomic Bulls they have on there list it's nearly to many.

I think this is a travesty!! There are going to be some bloody good bulls get the chop.
Doubt they’ll sell them but some of those bulls could prove a very good buy and worth a lot of £££ in 3 years time when everyone is chuffed with the offspring.
I don’t actually think this is progress.