Concerned about Red Tractor collapse.

[Humble Village Farmer]

They'll let you know in six months time as committee meetings will be necessary to authorise answer.

They are working very hard and looking into this because they take member concerns very seriously...

 

[snarling bee]

I'm sure I have in my notes somewhere the number of members, the acres declared, the number of countryside members etc etc. I am certainly not going to share that on a public forum even if I had the time to look, neither would I share anything with a non member unless it was in the public domain.
Please refer to my earlier post regarding the influence of different types of membership.

 

[snarling bee]

I've just googled it.
55,000 farmer and grower members
34,000 countryside members.

So I'm not sure what @warksfarmer meant when he said the membership is 4/5 non farmer. Was it that there were 241,000 other non farming members? Or there are 10,000 other non farming members?

 

[Old apprentice]

It's all pointless when you can sell in the live market for the same price.

Probably that is why full life asurance is being pushed to finish live auctions and ruin livestock farming for good.

 

[David.]

Don't mind what the rules are (within reason). I do take exception to the fact that processors are happy when imports have NO FARM ASSURANCE, yet require it of us. That's the rub.

Don't see how any UK farmer can be happy with that.

Absolutely agree with you.
But there is a feeling among some that we'd be better with no scheme at all, and I think that is wrong.
A fair, simple, basic scheme that merely demonstrated compliance with what the law actually requires, and nothing more, would still be a good thing imho.

 

[Bruce Almighty]

Probably that is why full life asurance is being pushed to finish live auctions and ruin livestock farming for good.

I can't understand why Madam President keeps banging on about this?

She appears to be obsessed with Farm Assurance. The majority of us know it's at least 75% bull poo.

 

[Jimdog1]

Absolutely agree with you.
But there is a feeling among some that we'd be better with no scheme at all, and I think that is wrong.
A fair, simple, basic scheme that merely demonstrated compliance with what the law actually requires, and nothing more, would still be a good thing imho.

The problem as I see it is that RT, and it is not the only culprit, have pushed us as farmers into a corner and we can now see that farm assurance is being used as a tool of control by the supermarkets and their pet suppliers. Whole life assurance, risk assessments, training records are not a prerequisite of safe food production. If there is no extra margin to be had from an assurance scheme and you are producing food legally then why do you need the rubber stamp of a parasitic organisation to market your goods? The whole thing has gotten out of hand.

 

[warksfarmer]

In all the time I have been involved I have NEVER heard anyone at NFU talk about countryside or any other form of membership other than a number of members which might get mentioned once a year. We ALWAYS only debate/talk about how policy affects farming and agriculture, nothing else. There is not a single representative on Council from any other membership class other than full farming member that I am aware of.

But some seem to think that the NFU invent the rules that everybody detests. NFU is not Government. The NFU tries to change the rules if it can and influence those that make the rules as much as possible.


No doubt you are on first name terms with your MP who does exactly as you wish in every vote concerning farming and the countryside.


This is my final post on this thread.




Do you believe everything you read on this forum?? Ring me if you wish.

You only go to the farmer meetings.

Go and see what they are doing at the headquarters and it’s not farming related.

 

[warksfarmer]

I've just googled it.
55,000 farmer and grower members
34,000 countryside members.

So I'm not sure what @warksfarmer meant when he said the membership is 4/5 non farmer. Was it that there were 241,000 other non farming members? Or there are 10,000 other non farming members?

‘’When we consider their inflated membership claims in relation to the whole UK industry we see just how unrepresentative the NFU council actually is. There are, in fact, some 212,000 UK holdings. NFU membership is only 26% of these. The truly astounding misrepresentation is that the NFU claim the number of holdings to be the number of farmers. The NFU’s membership is only 19% of the 294,000 registered commercial British farmers and a mere 11% of the recorded 476,000 farming workforce. A far cry from the "more than 70% of farmers".
... What is certain is the NFU is not anywhere close to representing the two thirds of farmers it implies – less than a fifth at best’’

https://d1hu4133i4rt3z.cloudfront.net/attachments/994/994689-16235b8b2c28d66a50bdff3623646bc7.pdf

 

[snarling bee]

You only go to the farmer meetings.

Go and see what they are doing at the headquarters and it’s not farming related.

As County Chairman I am on Council. Its a bit more than a 'farmer' meeting. In 3 years it has always been farming related. But I have only every spoken to either farmers or an NFU employee, so I'm not sure where you are coming from.
I assume you have been to national and regional NFU meetings as well, as you seem to know a lot about them.

 

[warksfarmer]

As County Chairman I am on Council. Its a bit more than a 'farmer' meeting. In 3 years it has always been farming related. But I have only every spoken to either farmers or an NFU employee, so I'm not sure where you are coming from.
I assume you have been to national and regional NFU meetings as well, as you seem to know a lot about them.

I’ve a mole at headquarters.

 

[snarling bee]

‘’When we consider their inflated membership claims in relation to the whole UK industry we see just how unrepresentative the NFU council actually is. There are, in fact, some 212,000 UK holdings. NFU membership is only 26% of these. The truly astounding misrepresentation is that the NFU claim the number of holdings to be the number of farmers. The NFU’s membership is only 19% of the 294,000 registered commercial British farmers and a mere 11% of the recorded 476,000 farming workforce. A far cry from the "more than 70% of farmers".
... What is certain is the NFU is not anywhere close to representing the two thirds of farmers it implies – less than a fifth at best’’

https://d1hu4133i4rt3z.cloudfront.net/attachments/994/994689-16235b8b2c28d66a50bdff3623646bc7.pdf

There are plenty of farmers who farm more than one holding, and plenty of holdings that are very small, just the sort of small holder that some would rather not be involved in the Union.
I think the truth is that nobody knows the exact figures of acres/holdings/farmers/etc, not even DEFRA. What constitutes a farmer???
I think it is fair to say that more than half of 'farmers' are members of the NFU. Some choose to be a member of the CLA instead or as well, or the TFA, or nothing.

I’ve a mole at headquarters.

I'm sure you do.

 

[David.]

The problem as I see it is that RT, and it is not the only culprit, have pushed us as farmers into a corner and we can now see that farm assurance is being used as a tool of control by the supermarkets and their pet suppliers. Whole life assurance, risk assessments, training records are not a prerequisite of safe food production. If there is no extra margin to be had from an assurance scheme and you are producing food legally then why do you need the rubber stamp of a parasitic organisation to market your goods? The whole thing has gotten out of hand.

I agree that the gold plating has got out of hand.
Like it or not we are food producers and there will always have to be some level of checks on compliance with the basic legal requirements, enforced by somebody.
As I see it that can be through multi agency visits, or far better through one annual fairly benign audit run by our own industry, that is fairly easy to live with.
Just saying, as @snarling bee has done already, that we ought to be careful what we wish for, and not chuck the baby out with the bathwater.

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

Birds of a feather.

 

[Jimdog1]

I agree that the gold plating has got out of hand.
Like it or not we are food producers and there will always have to be some level of checks on compliance with the basic legal requirements, enforced by somebody.
As I see it that can be through multi agency visits, or far better through one annual fairly benign audit run by our own industry, that is fairly easy to live with.
Just saying, as @snarling bee has done already, that we ought to be careful what we wish for, and not chuck the baby out with the bathwater.

I have said before ( perhaps on the aic thread) that the last thing we need is multiple scheme's as that will surely be more restrictive to trade. If RT is the best that we can manage as a single scheme then it has gone horribly wrong. If the NFU have any influence then there has to be pressure to completely restructure it into an organisation that works for farmers? But maybe its too late. A time of shortage is surely around the corner and there may never be a better time to cut off the vipers head?

 

[warksfarmer]

I have said before ( perhaps on the aic thread) that the last thing we need is multiple scheme's as that will surely be more restrictive to trade. If RT is the best that we can manage as a single scheme then it has gone horribly wrong. If the NFU have any influence then there has to be pressure to completely restructure it into an organisation that works for farmers? But maybe its too late. A time of shortage is surely around the corner and there may never be a better time to cut off the vipers head?

Do imports have multiple schemes?

Answer is no. They have no schemes. All U.K. farmers produce to the law such as approved pesticides and sprayer application licenses to name a couple of things. Why do we need a scheme to sit over the top of what’s already law?

Your paying for your sprayer license and then paying a privately funded company owned the the Nfu to check your license you’ve already paid for.

It’s a total con.

 

[neilo]

Those that are hoping for total collapse and removal of FA had better be "visitor ready" 365 days a year.
I can foresee mills, who themselves are subject to anytime inspections by their big buyers, making it a condition of dealing with them that they can similarly drop by for a lookee unannounced.
We may all then be wishing that there was once again a fairly benign scheme that was verified by a half onside, non-confrontational assessor, once a year at a mutually convenient time, with the farm having had fair warning to brush the yard up a bit.

If the required standards are those required by uk legislation, with none of the extra tosh that’s been rolled out by RT over recent years, is that really an issue (other than when they pick a day when you’re flat out with something)?

 

[warksfarmer]

Photo emerges of the RT Christmas party.

 

[MrNoo]

Since they were going to tip your Uk Quality Grain in with the tickboxed rubbish I'm surprised they didn't offer you a premium. Sending it all that way, it woukd hardly have gone for feed. Merchants and millers must take a lot of blame for this fraud too.
Theres a lot to be said for running your own lorry.

Which Co runs out of Sharpness??

 

[Tamar]

‘’When we consider their inflated membership claims in relation to the whole UK industry we see just how unrepresentative the NFU council actually is. There are, in fact, some 212,000 UK holdings. NFU membership is only 26% of these. The truly astounding misrepresentation is that the NFU claim the number of holdings to be the number of farmers. The NFU’s membership is only 19% of the 294,000 registered commercial British farmers and a mere 11% of the recorded 476,000 farming workforce. A far cry from the "more than 70% of farmers".
... What is certain is the NFU is not anywhere close to representing the two thirds of farmers it implies – less than a fifth at best’’

https://d1hu4133i4rt3z.cloudfront.net/attachments/994/994689-16235b8b2c28d66a50bdff3623646bc7.pdf

There are plenty of farmers who farm more than one holding, and plenty of holdings that are very small, just the sort of small holder that some would rather not be involved in the Union.
I think the truth is that nobody knows the exact figures of acres/holdings/farmers/etc, not even DEFRA. What constitutes a farmer???
I think it is fair to say that more than half of 'farmers' are members of the NFU. Some choose to be a member of the CLA instead or as well, or the TFA, or nothing.

I'm sure you do.

If they don't soon realise that there members detest RT, they will have a huge reduction of members.

Start representing your members NFU !!