Cousins Surface cultivator

[Rob Holmes]

50 hp/m is top end, we had our 130 hp 5475 on the 4 metre demo, and pulled it, but she didnt like it, the 160 hp 6480 on the video would manage a 4 metre one, but we went for 3 so the smaller tractors could pull it,

The points are original and done around 150 acres so far, single bolt change, don't know how much replacement one's are, but think I might hardface them in future.

 

[mo!]

It seems that Cousins have changed the design, the ones I have seen previously had two rows of tines, a DD, two rows of times and another DD. The tines and DD offset to run in different tracks.

Cousins website is the first place to look to confirm but they have a pic of the Oil Drill on the Surface page...

 

[Rob Holmes]

IIRC there are 2 designs, the original as you describe, and ours is a Surface 2, or as I call it a "Surface lite"

 

[Clive]

Today....

looks like a big move away from strip till to mintill though ? is the claydon really still the right job if doing that much cultivation or are you going to try their lower disturbance disc coulter to avoid getting another BG chit at drilling ?

 

[Feldspar]

IIRC there are 2 designs, the original as you describe, and ours is a Surface 2, or as I call it a "Surface lite"

What's the difference between the two in terms of the result produced and power requirement?

 

[Rob Holmes]

looks like a big move away from strip till to mintill though ? is the claydon really still the right job if doing that much cultivation or are you going to try their lower disturbance disc coulter to avoid getting another BG chit at drilling ?

I see where you're coming from and partly think the same, but we're only moving 2 inches, not dragging a Sumo type machine 9 inches.
We'll only use this in certain situations, the majority will still be sown directly into raked stubbles.
IIRC, haven't you said in previous posts that you're not adverse to lightly running the Carrier over stubbles in certain circumtances?

 

[Clive]

I see where you're coming from and partly think the same, but we're only moving 2 inches, not dragging a Sumo type machine 9 inches.
We'll only use this in certain situations, the majority will still be sown directly into raked stubbles.
IIRC, haven't you said in previous posts that you're not adverse to lightly running the Carrier over stubbles in certain circumtances?

No I have a carrier and am not afraid (25mm is my limit however) to use it where there is a benifits of doing so such as spreading uneven trash etc a bit like a heavy rake

however with a ULD drill like a 750a when i come back through at drilling day I dont disturb my stale seedbed like a tined Claydon with wide A shares would

maybe a lower disturbance drill would be a good idea if you're going doing the stale seedbed route was more my point or the Claydon disc coulter instead of the A share ?

 

[Right-arm fast]

Just looking at the video again it looks to be doing good job just wonder whether the soil could do with firming up with Cambridge rolls to get best possible chit. I think it's hard to replicated a decent Cambridge roll in a machine. Machine looks good though, nice to see it doesn't need big hp.

 

[Rob Holmes]

The roller can be filled with water, our's isn't yet

 

[Rob Holmes]

What's the difference between the two in terms of the result produced and power requirement?

No idea, but I guess the Surface Lite would take around 10-15 hp/m less pulling

 

[ajd132]

The idea isn't to move the entire surface, but to get soil movement across the full width to encourage a chit,

we also demo'd a Kv CLC Procut which is the same idea but with sweep points and moved everything, one shower of rain and it was pudding

What do you mean not move the entire surface but get soil movement across the full width?

 

[Feldspar]

@Rob Holmes - in the video with Dick Neale in he says you really need to go through twice with this, but looking at your video it certainly looks like in that situation that you could get away with once if necessary.

Did you consider the Terrastar before buying this? Problem I have with the Terrastar, and admittedly it's not designed to do this, is that it does move the soil evenly. Even after two passes you have bits still completely unmoved. The good thing about is that you have solid soil which carries the traffic well, but from a black-grass POV I'm not sure this is optimal. More crucially though, especially when using a disc drill, is that the lack of uniformity in the surface does affect seeding consistency. This isn't a problem with a Claydon type drill because it busts through these small variation.

The other issue with Terrastar is that going through once really isn't enough, especially in drier conditions like we had last year and if the soil is more settled (i.e. after being direct drilled the previous year rather than ploughed). Having the option of just doing one pass would be quite useful if short of time. On the other hand though, the Terrastar has a very fast working speed and low power requirement. I was using it about 16-17 kph and a 220hp tractor hardly knew it was there.

What do you think about using it as a OSR drill as well? Looks like you could use it as a cheap cover crop drill too.

 

[mo!]

@Rob Holmes - in the video with Dick Neale in he says you really need to go through twice with this, but looking at your video it certainly looks like in that situation that you could get away with once if necessary.

Did you consider the Terrastar before buying this? Problem I have with the Terrastar, and admittedly it's not designed to do this, is that it does move the soil evenly. Even after two passes you have bits still completely unmoved. The good thing about is that you have solid soil which carries the traffic well, but from a black-grass POV I'm not sure this is optimal. More crucially though, especially when using a disc drill, is that the lack of uniformity in the surface does affect seeding consistency. This isn't a problem with a Claydon type drill because it busts through these small variation.

The other issue with Terrastar is that going through once really isn't enough, especially in drier conditions like we had last year and if the soil is more settled (i.e. after being direct drilled the previous year rather than ploughed). Having the option of just doing one pass would be quite useful if short of time. On the other hand though, the Terrastar has a very fast working speed and low power requirement. I was using it about 16-17 kph and a 220hp tractor hardly knew it was there.

What do you think about using it as a OSR drill as well? Looks like you could use it as a cheap cover crop drill too.

Zero consolidation with a Terrastar so not really comparable. I think you would need several passes plus a roll to do the same as a Surface. When Dick Neale spoke to our Monitor farm group he was advocating two passes at an angle and pushing the firming element. Particularly that the Razor rings are lined up with the tines so the roller isn't sitting on unmoved soil. I did suggest that a Toptilth would do the same job which didn't go down very well...

 

[Flat 10]

Zero consolidation with a Terrastar so not really comparable. I think you would need several passes plus a roll to do the same as a Surface. When Dick Neale spoke to our Monitor farm group he was advocating two passes at an angle and pushing the firming element. Particularly that the Razor rings are lined up with the tines so the roller isn't sitting on unmoved soil. I did suggest that a Toptilth would do the same job which didn't go down very well...

@Feldspar sold his

 

[Devon James]

Wox agri Super maxx as an alternative in this situation? Thoughts?

 

[warksfarmer]

Zero consolidation with a Terrastar so not really comparable. I think you would need several passes plus a roll to do the same as a Surface. When Dick Neale spoke to our Monitor farm group he was advocating two passes at an angle and pushing the firming element. Particularly that the Razor rings are lined up with the tines so the roller isn't sitting on unmoved soil. I did suggest that a Toptilth would do the same job which didn't go down very well...

Over the years the amount of times the experts change their views on Blackgrass shows that they absolutely nothing about it. First it was min till, then it was the plough, then it was cover crops and so on .......

We've changed the drill to a mounted unit with front tank and will be using it as a surface cultivator 2-3 times before drilling from now onwards. It might need a tweak here and there as we get into the system but moving the soil is the only way to germinate the Blackgrass quickly to then get a kill.

 

[Rob Holmes]

What do you mean not move the entire surface but get soil movement across the full width?

The tines don't dig every mm of the surface but soil movement covers the entire surface to get seed-soil contact

@Rob Holmes - in the video with Dick Neale in he says you really need to go through twice with this, but looking at your video it certainly looks like in that situation that you could get away with once if necessary.

Did you consider the Terrastar before buying this? Problem I have with the Terrastar, and admittedly it's not designed to do this, is that it does move the soil evenly. Even after two passes you have bits still completely unmoved. The good thing about is that you have solid soil which carries the traffic well, but from a black-grass POV I'm not sure this is optimal. More crucially though, especially when using a disc drill, is that the lack of uniformity in the surface does affect seeding consistency. This isn't a problem with a Claydon type drill because it busts through these small variation.

The other issue with Terrastar is that going through once really isn't enough, especially in drier conditions like we had last year and if the soil is more settled (i.e. after being direct drilled the previous year rather than ploughed). Having the option of just doing one pass would be quite useful if short of time. On the other hand though, the Terrastar has a very fast working speed and low power requirement. I was using it about 16-17 kph and a 220hp tractor hardly knew it was there.

What do you think about using it as a OSR drill as well? Looks like you could use it as a cheap cover crop drill too.

I've spoken to Dick Neale too, and he says the surface works well in combination with a stubble rake, how we intend to use it,
Before settling for the Surface, we demo'd several machines including dynadrive, short discs, trailed discs, Lemken Karat, Kv CLC Pro-cut and a pre-production Terrastar, it was only the Surface that did the job we were looking for.
The surface would be perfect for cover crops and OSR drilling

 

[Feldspar]

Zero consolidation with a Terrastar so not really comparable. I think you would need several passes plus a roll to do the same as a Surface. When Dick Neale spoke to our Monitor farm group he was advocating two passes at an angle and pushing the firming element. Particularly that the Razor rings are lined up with the tines so the roller isn't sitting on unmoved soil. I did suggest that a Toptilth would do the same job which didn't go down very well...

@Feldspar sold his

You know I was just thinking that this morning. In the same way the Terrastar is akin to a jumped up Sampo Turbo-tiller, so a Surface (especially in its original guise) a reincarnation of a Toptilth.

And, yes, @Flat 10 is right, I did sell a very old Toptilth last year. Face-palm perhaps. Not sure though that those pig tines would bite into hard soil enough.

 

[Feldspar]

The tines don't dig every mm of the surface but soil movement covers the entire surface to get seed-soil contact



I've spoken to Dick Neale too, and he says the surface works well in combination with a stubble rake, how we intend to use it,
Before settling for the Surface, we demo'd several machines including dynadrive, short discs, trailed discs, Lemken Karat, Kv CLC Pro-cut and a pre-production Terrastar, it was only the Surface that did the job we were looking for.
The surface would be perfect for cover crops and OSR drilling

I'm not familiar with the phrase 'short discs'. What are they? What were your thoughts on the Terrastar relative to the Surface?

 

[Flat 10]

I'm not familiar with the phrase 'short discs'. What are they? What were your thoughts on the Terrastar relative to the Surface?

Short discs are a bit like the discs on the front of a carrier or vad drill. Lots of people make them/sell them like bullock machinery, agri linc or people like lemken, amazon catros etc.....