Covid jab - is it compulsory?

[ollie989898]

I do not believe children under 15 are able to properly evaluate the risks and benefits of a covid vaccine myself. I bet many adults could not, myself included. It is wrong to allow a blanket piece of legislation or policy that universally allows children to accept the treatment or not.

Whilst I am in favour of patient autonomy and appreciate Gillick competence, this is far from an ordinary situation when you are discussing a mass vaccination program.

 

[Cowabunga]

My view is that they have that duty with regards to their education such as Maths or English etc. That duty does not run into a public health pandemic because they do not have Covid lessons ........... yet! Children cannot vote or become an adult until they are 18 years old so come under the direction of their parents until that time. And whilst I am not for one minute saying they should be not allowed to make any decisions by the parents, its about the parents allowing them to make decisions about certain things. For example the HPV vaccine has been proved to be an absolute requirement because of 30 years worth of data and trials etc. The CV vaccine had no proper trials and certainly has no time to be proven.

We all know that schools are predominantly left wing anyway. They have been for 15 years pushing a very liberal labour train of thought about everything. I just think a school should be unbiased with absolutely everything they do. They should not have a view that is pushed onto impressionable minds who are already worried about CV just from what they have seen occur over the last 2 years. Its scaremongering and underhand and is very controlling. Does the government want to control us, but have realised they can't control many adults but they can start the process of controlling the children so when they become adults its already in place. Who knows?

The school is in fact ‘in loco parentis’ and certainly does have a duty of care for its pupil’s health and welfare at all times and even as a guardian for any events that take place at home, such as abuse.
As with vegetarians forbidding their children from eating meat, or Jehovah’s Witnesses not allowing their child a life-saving blood transfusion, it could be a valid point of view that a parent who absolutely refuses to vaccinate their children against a potentially deadly disease may be exercising a kind of abuse. This is a fairly controversial viewpoint and has been debated for decades. However, I would fully support a grown up child who has been maimed for life by, say, Polio or Measles as a result of their parents refusing to have them vaccinated, in taking legal action against their parents for ruining their life chances. This situation with Covid is slightly different because for these younger children the risk-benefit ratio of the vaccine is much more narrow. However the child is also far less likely to get an adverse reaction to the vaccine. I also have my doubts about the benefit of vaccinating children up to a certain age for Covid, but there must be a cut-off age where the vaccine’s benefits become overwhelming, as it is for adults.

 

[Dry Rot]

It's not just about the risks to children though. is it? If they have the virus, regardless of the symptoms, they can pass it on to others. I think the word I am looking for is "responsibility".

Now I expect I will get the outraged parent reaction. I always used to get flu/colds when schools went back, but I expect that's just a coincidence.

 

[primmiemoo]

Wave of long Covid Omicron cases is 'inevitable' - with children particularly at risk

The UK medicines regulator could approve jabs for children aged five to 11 within days - with warnings over South African data on hospitalisation

inews.co.uk

Learning more about omicron, daily. Dated 6am, today.

 

[Courier]

NZ has now achieved its aim of a minimum 90% vaccinated in ALL District Health Board areas .
Total Covid deaths 47.
Total Covid vaccine related deaths 0.
Read into that what you will ….

 

[ollie989898]

It's not just about the risks to children though. is it? If they have the virus, regardless of the symptoms, they can pass it on to others. I think the word I am looking for is "responsibility".

Now I expect I will get the outraged parent reaction. I always used to get flu/colds when schools went back, but I expect that's just a coincidence.

You can't force an individual to accept a vaccine on the basis of 'you need to do this so other people aren't at risk'. It doesn't work that way.

Children are allowed to make their own decisions provided they demonstrate they are Gillick competent. This has to be done on an individual basis.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

My view is that they have that duty with regards to their education such as Maths or English etc. That duty does not run into a public health pandemic because they do not have Covid lessons ........... yet! Children cannot vote or become an adult until they are 18 years old so come under the direction of their parents until that time. And whilst I am not for one minute saying they should be not allowed to make any decisions by the parents, its about the parents allowing them to make decisions about certain things. For example the HPV vaccine has been proved to be an absolute requirement because of 30 years worth of data and trials etc. The CV vaccine had no proper trials and certainly has no time to be proven.

We all know that schools are predominantly left wing anyway. They have been for 15 years pushing a very liberal labour train of thought about everything. I just think a school should be unbiased with absolutely everything they do. They should not have a view that is pushed onto impressionable minds who are already worried about CV just from what they have seen occur over the last 2 years. Its scaremongering and underhand and is very controlling. Does the government want to control us, but have realised they can't control many adults but they can start the process of controlling the children so when they become adults its already in place. Who knows?

I could also see the make sure that pupils are informed of options, and might be standing up to misinformation, or even disinformation circulating in its catchment could easily be extended to the meat is bad for climate change that seems to be circulating at the moment too.

 

[primmiemoo]

I could also see the make sure that pupils are informed of options, and might be standing up to misinformation, or even disinformation circulating in its catchment could easily be extended to the meat is bad for climate change that seems to be circulating at the moment too.

Balance certainly helps!

 

[farmerm]

I had my first vaccine (AZ) in march and it put me in bed for 10 days. I felt terrible and the first night we very nearly called an ambulance to be honest. I have never ever felt like that before. I have so far not had the 2nd vaccine or obviously the booster. In October I was contacted by the NHS to have an antibody test as I had only had one vaccine. I did the test and it came back confirmed that I had in fact had CV probably in August. I knew nothing about it as I had no symptoms. We were not doing twice weekly LFT because in august the children were not at school. So no symptoms, no LFT tests meant no PCR test, so no idea I had had it. I followed it up with the NHS whether my march AZ vaccine could be why I was showing a positive antibody test. They were adamant that there was no way that is correct and that I had a variant of CV in my system that was in the UK in July and August. They named it but I can't remember what it was.
Then mid november on a sunday I could not get warm and was shivering extensively. Did a LFT test and it was negative so thought nothing of it because that was not a CV symptom. Did another LFT on the tuesday and again negative. Did one on the Thursday and it came up positive within a few seconds. Booked a PCR for the friday and on the Saturday it was confirmed positive along with my youngest, but not my oldest or other half. NHS on the phone and they backdated me to the sunday meaning I only actually did 5 days in isolation. During those 5 days the LFT test were positive up until the very last day when it went negative so obviously the NHS knew what they were doing date wise.
I had one day, saturday where I did feel quite rough and very similar to how I felt from the AZ vaccine in march. However other than that one day I felt ok other than a bit run down as the main symptom. The NHS has now asked me again to do a antibody test which arrived yesterday so thats todays job. Clearly it will come back showing antibodies so that means I have now had CV twice and out of the combined 20 days of supposed symptoms I had one day where I did feel rubbish. Where as I had 10 days of feeling like proper crap from the vaccine.
So thats my story and at the moment I have no desire to have another vaccine and I do now think there is more to this than meets the eye. One think I can't get my head around though is that the government are up to no good, because all they are doing is hurting themselves with future lost votes and also a major financial crisis of the country. It just does not make sense for a government to basically push the self destruct button so if there is something dodgy going on it must be coming from the UK science advisors but again whats the reasoning behind them doing this unless they are being duped by the world health organisation.

I feel we have to trust in the system because if there really was anything sinister going on behind this and some malevolent global organisation with the capability to pull all the steering strings, including total control of all mainstream media, then we are surely screwed anyway. There will I am sure be those that have leveraged this pandemic to forward their agenda but there are simply far too many variables and too many people searching answers for some evil master plan to be in play, its inconceivable in the real world.

I was rough for a weeked after 1st AZ but felt no effect from the second. Had the 1/2 dose Moderna booster today Fingers crossed for the next 24hrs....

 

[Dry Rot]

You can't force an individual to accept a vaccine on the basis of 'you need to do this so other people aren't at risk'. It doesn't work that way.

Children are allowed to make their own decisions provided they demonstrate they are Gillick competent. This has to be done on an individual basis.

I do things every day that society says I must do for the good of the rest of society! It's about time today's youngsters realised that that doctrine applies to everyone. It's called democracy. There are some things in life that we don't get a choice about. We vote politicians into Parliament to decide what those things are. If it doesn't work that way, it bloody well should!

 

[Dave6170]

It's not just about the risks to children though. is it? If they have the virus, regardless of the symptoms, they can pass it on to others. I think the word I am looking for is "responsibility".

Now I expect I will get the outraged parent reaction. I always used to get flu/colds when schools went back, but I expect that's just a coincidence.

They could pass it on even if they are vaccinated

 

[Gerbert]

I do things every day that society says I must do for the good of the rest of society! It's about time today's youngsters realised that that doctrine applies to everyone. It's called democracy. There are some things in life that we don't get a choice about. We vote politicians into Parliament to decide what those things are. If it doesn't work that way, it bloody well should!

The difference being that my body, and anybody elses, is not a democracy, it's a dictatorial regime and not up for discussion.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

NZ has now achieved its aim of a minimum 90% vaccinated in ALL District Health Board areas .
Total Covid deaths 47.
Total Covid vaccine related deaths 0.
Read into that what you will ….

I read into it, that you may still be unaware of the discrepancies between what you be being told (I guess, you got your information from a mainstream NZ media source?) and what is actually happening.

Most are blissfully unaware, and thus righteous; at least 64% of eligible NZers have been conned into accepting the new normal involves a digital internal passport "for public safety".

I assume that's why they are saying it's 90%?

 

[Ukjay]

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I read into it, that you may still be unaware of the discrepancies between what you be being told (I guess, you got your information from a mainstream NZ media source?) and what is actually happening.

Most are blissfully unaware, and thus righteous; at least 64% of eligible NZers have been conned into accepting the new normal involves a digital internal passport "for public safety".

I assume that's why they are saying it's 90%?

The below UK Gov Covid reports also do not appear to show that unvaxed vs vaxed are more likely to require hospitalisation / die from covid for reported cases from what I can see (and prior reports similarly so), therefore I personally cannot see what the continued push to get the unvaxed vaccinated is for, as it doesn't stack up to me now reading the data.
We can still catch / pass onto others / die if jabbed and boosted - the same as if im not vaxed, and looking at it - it seemingly appears less likely to die overall if unvaxed..?

From my perspective, we just need to get on with lives and stop continuing this mass hysteria and trying to force people who do not wish to be vaccinted into being cohersed into having to do so imho.

 

[melted welly]

The below UK Gov Covid reports also do not appear to show that unvaxed vs vaxed are more likely to require hospitalisation / die from covid for reported cases from what I can see (and prior reports similarly so), therefore I personally cannot see what the continued push to get the unvaxed vaccinated is for, as it doesn't stack up to me now reading the data.
We can still catch / pass onto others / die if jabbed and boosted - the same as if im not vaxed, and looking at it - it seemingly appears less likely to die overall if unvaxed..?

From my perspective, we just need to get on with lives and stop continuing this mass hysteria and trying to force people who do not wish to be vaccinted into being cohersed into having to do so imho.


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Agreed, it’s another division being sown into society.

For all the talk of “inclusion” I think we are living through a very divisive and racist time. The division and racism are championed by agitators selling themselves as good and noble causes, when in fact their constant trawling of society for unsatisfactory events and the passionate fury with which offence is taken is designed to break down relationships rather than cement them.

The devil makes work for idle hands.

 

[primmiemoo]

Not many TFFers have ever been out in a sudden storm without a coat to hand, it would appear. Far fewer been knocked off their surfboard, or belly board, by that wave which looked like a nice gentle one before it surged. Barely any who've experienced a storm at sea ~ and how many of them would have ignored the maritime agencies?

 

[Ukjay]

Not many TFFers have ever been out in a sudden storm without a coat to hand, it would appear. Far fewer been knocked off their surfboard, or belly board, by that wave which looked like a nice gentle one before it surged. Barely any who've experienced a storm at sea ~ and how many of them would have ignored the maritime agencies?

And may I ask what that is supposed to or intended to mean - as like many things in todays society, people talking riddles vs actually standing up and speaking with clarity, are perpetuating misunderstandings?

 

[Macsky]

Agreed, it’s another division being sown into society.

For all the talk of “inclusion” I think we are living through a very divisive and racist time. The division and racism are championed by agitators selling themselves as good and noble causes, when in fact their constant trawling of society for unsatisfactory events and the passionate fury with which offence is taken is designed to break down relationships rather than cement them.

The devil makes work for idle hands.

I wonder what the next great cause will be to the furious and perpetually offended?

 

[melted welly]

I wonder what the next great cause will be to the furious and perpetually offended?

Hopefully they turn inwards on each other.

 

[Servac]

It's not compulsory. I don't like needles either but the ones they use are so fine and sharp you barely feel it. It's not like wiping down ol' trusty rattled around in the quad bike glove box with the fencing pliers for 10 years and needs the weight of 2 men to drive it through the skin of a ewe. Look away, talk about something and it's like being lightly brushed by a bramble. If you tell them you don't like needles when you arrive you'll get extra fuss and support, you can lie down afterwards if you like. As the virus mutates the jab may need to be given yearly like the flu jab but no need to worry about that right now.

When I went for my first jab, my expectations were based on injecting sheep with a blunt needle, which made me a little apprehensive, so I looked away when having it. Was a bit of a pleasant surprise when i hardly noticed the needle goung in.