Cumbria farmhouse heating options

[renewablejohn]

Hi, its a very run down tenant farm approx 250 years old, knackered basically but wow, what a location (foot of the Howgills)! Good insulation in loft space, rubble filled walls, single pane windows with rotten wood surrounds (double glazed window quotes in, step one of 1,000 on the 'to do' list), yep, as you suggest, flagged floors up re underfloor heating (powered by ? down the track) confirmed job on the 'to do' list, cracking beck running down the side of the farm which could be used re electricity? Been working with the Parks people to make sure we comply with the local regs....We'll be looking for a hard wood supplier in bulk near Kirkby Stephen at some stage for the multi-fuel wood burners yes. Thanks for your guidance, appreciate any ideas or tried and tested methods for this area. We're not frightened of very hard work and know its a life long project

Just answered your own question. If you have a cracking beck then that is your answer to your heating and electric problem. Do you have stone mullions if so forget about double glazing quotes and instead install triple glazing direct into the stone mullions. Works out at less than half the price of double glazing which then allows you to install a MHVR system to keep the fabric of the house dry and cosy.

 

[phillipe]

what are the pros and cons of underfloor heating? I like the idea of digging up the concrete floors (eventually) and re laying limecrete flooring with insulated glass backfill before the limecrete, is fitting underfloor heating pipes a good idea at this stage?

Dig up floors get subbase perfect ,inulation ,underfloor pipe ,floscreed ,perfectly smooth insu!ated floor ,do it properly do it once

 

[phillipe]

you only need a lower grade (40 deg C) to make it work as you have large surface area / emitter. Rads are the opposite.

works well with heat pumps but costs more to install than rads often. dries the dog beds well but heats their water bowls up! causes more dust in boot room for sure!

No difference in the price as you can do most of the work ,no expensive plumbers ,no rads to buy ,you can use all the wall space ,no dust traps that are rads and a lot cheaper to run

 

[renewablejohn]

Dig up floors get subbase perfect ,inulation ,underfloor pipe ,floscreed ,perfectly smooth insu!ated floor ,do it properly do it once

Old houses you need to be a bit more careful than that as generally they have no formal foundation and if you dont do it right you get moisture wicking up the walls creating a damp house. Would highly recommend getting the Lime Handbook from Ty-Mawr when working with an old house and in the book is an appropriate method of doing an insulated limecrete floor incorporating under floor heating. The only addition to that when we do ours is the incorporation of electric UFH as well as the wet system so that we have the option of using either or both.

 

[Billiedog18]

Just answered your own question. If you have a cracking beck then that is your answer to your heating and electric problem. Do you have stone mullions if so forget about double glazing quotes and instead install triple glazing direct into the stone mullions. Works out at less than half the price of double glazing which then allows you to install a MHVR system to keep the fabric of the house dry and cosy.

No stone mullions, just rough pointed stone. Thanks we'll investigate further into this option. Cheers!

 

[akaPABLO01]

what are the pros and cons of underfloor heating? I like the idea of digging up the concrete floors (eventually) and re laying limecrete flooring with insulated glass backfill before the limecrete, is fitting underfloor heating pipes a good idea at this stage?

You don’t necessarily need to dig up floors as ufh can come on preinsulated micro board. Take a look at new heat ufh website.

The cons of ufh, messy to install if you live whilst install, you need a levelled screed which needs 24 hrs to set

The pros of ufh, 30/40% more efficient then radiators, heat from floor up.

Yes please, that'd be great. Thanks for your help.

I’ll post a plan tomorrow for you. You’ll probably need a laser measure and or tape measure.
You only need good windows and loft insulation, I doubt you could put internal insulation in as you’ll lose space. Plug all gaps and holes and you’ll be fine.

 

[renewablejohn]

If it has had nothing done to it in recent times ,it wont have a ounce of inssulation ,very cold floors ,and crappy uvpc windows badly fitted.to get a large house up to a decent standard wirh a few green options ,you will need 150 grand to start with ,floors up insulated ,all window back out and put properly ,wall inulation system in all room s ,a rewire and replumb.all appliances and fittings to be replaced with a low usage .look ar all the systems as they all have good and bad points ,also do you have acess to wood for fuel or running water nearby ?

I hope its nothing like 150k. To date have spent approx 30k on new heating systems, insulation, windows and a bathroom with hopefully another 20k to finish the job.

 

[phillipe]

Old houses you need to be a bit more careful than that as generally they have no formal foundation and if you dont do it right you get moisture wicking up the walls creating a damp house. Would highly recommend getting the Lime Handbook from Ty-Mawr when working with an old house and in the book is an appropriate method of doing an insulated limecrete floor incorporating under floor heating. The only addition to that when we do ours is the incorporation of electric UFH as well as the wet system so that we have the option of using either or both.

I hope its nothing like 150k. To date have spent approx 30k on new heating systems, insulation, windows and a bathroom with hopefully another 20k to finish the job.

,
You are doing it your self ,have you taken all the floors up ? Have you rewired to certification?,have you replumbed ?,by the sound of it the op will be reroofing,new windows new floors rewiring and replumbing ,new kitchen ,new bathrooms ,maybe a gshp ,plus any other rotton stuff he finds in the place ,as it hasnt been touched for years ,plus all renovations inside and out must have p!anning permission and be under a form of building inspector,50 grand you say

 

[Billiedog18]

Old houses you need to be a bit more careful than that as generally they have no formal foundation and if you dont do it right you get moisture wicking up the walls creating a damp house. Would highly recommend getting the Lime Handbook from Ty-Mawr when working with an old house and in the book is an appropriate method of doing an insulated limecrete floor incorporating under floor heating. The only addition to that when we do ours is the incorporation of electric UFH as well as the wet system so that we have the option of using either or both.

Very interesting, thank you. Its a beautiful building and we dearly want to respectfully renovate it back to its former glory whilst being able to afford to live in it re heating costs. I've ordered the book you suggested on line

 

[Billiedog18]

,
You are doing it your self ,have you taken all the floors up ? Have you rewired to certification?,have you replumbed ?,by the sound of it the op will be reroofing,new windows new floors rewiring and replumbing ,new kitchen ,new bathrooms ,maybe a gshp ,plus any other rotton stuff he finds in the place ,as it hasnt been touched for years ,plus all renovations inside and out must have p!anning permission and be under a form of building inspector,50 grand you say

No not yet - only had it a fortnight. It'll be a mixture of tradies and ourselves to keep costs as low as possible. Its recently been rewired and re-roofed. We've already started working with Parks etc to see whats possible within regulation as always.

 

[phillipe]

No not yet - only had it a fortnight. It'll be a mixture of tradies and ourselves to keep costs as low as possible. Its recently been rewired and re-roofed. We've already started working with Parks etc to see whats possible within regulation as always.

Good ,you seem a pretty sensible person,not all that glitters is gold ,keep it simple and yoy wont go far wrong

 

[renewablejohn]

,
You are doing it your self ,have you taken all the floors up ? Have you rewired to certification?,have you replumbed ?,by the sound of it the op will be reroofing,new windows new floors rewiring and replumbing ,new kitchen ,new bathrooms ,maybe a gshp ,plus any other rotton stuff he finds in the place ,as it hasnt been touched for years ,plus all renovations inside and out must have p!anning permission and be under a form of building inspector,50 grand you say

To date have replumbed, new central heating systems with wood boiler, new kitchen with wood aga (esse). new bathroom with bath, shower, toilet, twin basins, stage light mirrors, electric ufh and MVHR. Windows throughout (82). Still to do 3 en-suites, 2 kitchenettes, UFH and external doors. All under listed building control using traditional lime mortars and plasters. Yes I did attend a training course at Ty Mawr on Lime Mortar and Plastering with Lime Mortar as I could not find builders in the area capable of using lime.

 

[renewablejohn]

Here is the start of ours on the extension built in 1721.




And this after the new stone mullions and triple glazing put in.

 

[wasted years]

I hope its nothing like 150k. To date have spent approx 30k on new heating systems, insulation, windows and a bathroom with hopefully another 20k to finish the job.

My friend has just built a brand new 4 bed plus annex all done by trades for 200k so doing up a property isn't going to cost 150k.

 

[phillipe]

My friend has just built a brand new 4 bed plus annex all done by trades for 200k so doing up a property isn't going to cost 150k.

Well thats the costs in this part of the country ,building materials rose in price by around 20 % laxt year ,all refurbishments must have planning permission ,

 

[Billiedog18]

Here is the start of ours on the extension built in 1721.


View attachment 631092

And this after the new stone mullions and triple glazing put in.

View attachment 631094

Wow, what a difference. You did a cracking job!

 

[renewablejohn]

Wow, what a difference. You did a cracking job!

Only posted the pictures to show what any practical farmer can do. Only practical training was the 2 day Lime course at Ty Mawr which I highly recommend for anyone with an old building built before modern concrete. Once you get used to it Lime is far easier to use than modern concrete.

 

[renewablejohn]

Well thats the costs in this part of the country ,building materials rose in price by around 20 % laxt year ,all refurbishments must have planning permission ,

Ours not only had to have planning permission but Listed Building Consent as well, This restricts the materials you can use on the building for example the plastic gutters had to be replaced with the traditional wooden gutters. Even the window sealing system had to be agreed in advance.

 

[Courier]

My friend has just built a brand new 4 bed plus annex all done by trades for 200k so doing up a property isn't going to cost 150k.

There’s a world of difference between new build costs with no restrictions and refurbishing an older property.

 

[akaPABLO01]

@Billiedog18 if you sketch each floor out in pencil and follow the attached example