Death after crash involving tractor and car in Somerset

[Simon Chiles]

your rules are far different to the uk then, and do you really need 70% minimum ?

In the uk a HGV running at 44 tonnes gross, or any HGV for that matter,
only needs 50% minimum to pass an MOT on service brakes
and it is hard to get a HGV to have a braking efficiency above 70%
you must have a big scrap yard

Most cars, HGV's and the very best Ag trailers have a braking efficiency of just about or slightly over 50% braking efficiency. The regulations for Ag trailer brakes are for a 25% efficiency unless towed over the 40k limit by either a fastrac or mog. However the best tractor braking efficiencies can hit nearly 80% ( normally involves oil immersed brakes in front hubs ) and it would be impossible to exceed this without breaking the laws of physics. This is why, with decent brakes on tractors and poor trailer brakes, there were so many tractor brake failures, they were just being overloaded. Generally the message has got out and more people have spec'd better braking systems on trailers reducing wear and increasing safety.

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

I'm not an expert on abs systems on tractors so could be wrong but I thought that there's two types of abs systems on Ag trailers, one needs the towing tractor to have abs and the other obviously doesn't.

I need to give Mike from Erentek a call on Monday, so I'll ask him the question.

 

[Pennine Ploughing]

The regulations for Ag trailer brakes are for a 25% efficiency unless towed over the 40k limit by either a fastrac or mog

but there is more tractors than the Fastrac or Mog that can do over 40k, so do you come on then, do you need 25% or 50% on the trailer towed by say a Fendit doing 60K

 

[Henarar]

the vent is illegal at that speed full stop

 

[Farmer Roy]

What I just CANT understand ( as a thick colonial ) is how you can run heavy fast powerful equipment that is basically doing the same job as a semi ( HGV ) but without the same strict licensing & regulations . . .
Is it because farmers are "special" & are above the law ?
I have been criticised on here before about the so called "freedoms" we enjoy farming here, but let me tell you, there is NO way we could do the stuff on public roads ( especially high traffic roads - what we get away with on quite gravel back roads is another story ) that you fellas seem to take for granted

And yes, I have worked in the UK & driven loaded trailers & ploughs & hay balers & rakes etc etc along A & B roads & narrow little lanes . . .
I couldn't understand it 30 yrs ago towing a trailer behind a TW35, roaring through villages & having traffic backed up behind on the open road & I still can't understand it now when speeds & weights have obviously increased - although still way slower than the general traffic, which to me is just as dangerous as travelling fast. A slow vehicle holding up traffic will ALWAYS frustrate people & lead to risky / dangerous overtaking. MUCH safer if all traffic travels at a similar speed I would have thought . . . ???

 

[Billm]

My grandson has just turned 16yo and passed his tractor driving test. Obviously he has no experience driving on the public roads. What size/weight of tractor or tractor/trailer combination is he now legally allowed to drive on the road? I would hate to think of him taking one of these heavy weight units out!!.

 

[Farmer Roy]

Here, you need a car licence to drive any Ag equipment on the road

I can't believe you allow 16 yr olds who legally can't drive a car, out on the road towing heavy loads . . .
It just DOESNT make sense

 

[roscoe erf]

Sounds like another work of fiction from encyclopaedia bullshiata.

Any comment @Simon Chiles ?

[ABS actually is a good idea though, but not mandatory unless your travelling above the conventional tractor limit of 40K]

I'd love to get hold of that handbook must be many different versions floating about

 

[roscoe erf]

your rules are far different to the uk then, and do you really need 70% minimum ?

In the uk a HGV running at 44 tonnes gross, or any HGV for that matter,
only needs 50% minimum to pass an MOT on service brakes
and it is hard to get a HGV to have a braking efficiency above 70%
you must have a big scrap yard

My thoughts too

 

[Tarw Coch]

Here, you need a car licence to drive any Ag equipment on the road

I can't believe you allow 16 yr olds who legally can't drive a car, out on the road towing heavy loads . . .
It just DOESNT make sense

They need to pass a tractor test and there are restrictions on what they can do.

 

[Tarw Coch]

What I just CANT understand ( as a thick colonial ) is how you can run heavy fast powerful equipment that is basically doing the same job as a semi ( HGV ) but without the same strict licensing & regulations . . .
Is it because farmers are "special" & are above the law ?
I have been criticised on here before about the so called "freedoms" we enjoy farming here, but let me tell you, there is NO way we could do the stuff on public roads ( especially high traffic roads - what we get away with on quite gravel back roads is another story ) that you fellas seem to take for granted

And yes, I have worked in the UK & driven loaded trailers & ploughs & hay balers & rakes etc etc along A & B roads & narrow little lanes . . .
I couldn't understand it 30 yrs ago towing a trailer behind a TW35, roaring through villages & having traffic backed up behind on the open road & I still can't understand it now when speeds & weights have obviously increased - although still way slower than the general traffic, which to me is just as dangerous as travelling fast. A slow vehicle holding up traffic will ALWAYS frustrate people & lead to risky / dangerous overtaking. MUCH safer if all traffic travels at a similar speed I would have thought . . . ???

It would be impossible to remove all tractors from the roads though and just because some farmers are doing certain things on the road doesn't change the fact that it's illegal. No different to me speeding in my car or talking on the phone, it is illegal but I may well not get caught.

 

[Simon Chiles]

but there is more tractors than the Fastrac or Mog that can do over 40k, so do you come on then, do you need 25% or 50% on the trailer towed by say a Fendit doing 60K

C and U regs limit the fendt to 40k so anything over that speed would be illegal. Just the same as if I had a Ferrari, it might do 170 but the limit is 70. So the answer to your question is legally the trailer on the fendt only needs to have 25%, however it's sensible to have a higher braking efficiency on the trailer otherwise the tractor is doing all the braking and often suffers from premature brake wear.

 

[simonk88]

We are in the UK! Even though it isn't necessary we feel that it is important to try to do the job as correctly as possible, we don't run anything that isn't up to HGV spec at the very least in terms of braking efficiency, all trailers have 110km/h rated axles with load sensing air, and everything since 2008 has ABS, which we have retro fitted to the tractors. An annual test is £32 per trailer, if we get pulled over during harvest we have had a VOSA MOT test done 8-10 weeks previously. The test is done with the tractor trailer combination too, so drawbar heights (which have a big impact on braking) are set up at the time and that trailer stays with that tractor for the duration of harvest, no compromise. The tractors have dash cams in, not just to monitor drivers but also to see what other road users are doing. Nothing goes out of the yard overweight, however when loads are coming in off the combine it is difficult to judge exactly how much is in the trailer, but we try our best!

 

[simonk88]

Also run individual number plates matched to the tractors, something else that one of our local police forces likes to get you stopped for, just so they can have a good look around and find something wrong, and believe me the things they come up with is incredibly creative!

 

[Pennine Ploughing]

C and U regs limit the fendt to 40k so anything over that speed would be illegal. Just the same as if I had a Ferrari, it might do 170 but the limit is 70. So the answer to your question is legally the trailer on the fendt only needs to have 25%, however it's sensible to have a higher braking efficiency on the trailer otherwise the tractor is doing all the braking and often suffers from premature brake wear.

I know that, but the 50/60kph tractor drivers don't seem to

 

[Pasty]

Of all the 2,437,875 posts on this forum so far, Pasty, that's the very worst I've ever had to read.

Sorry, didn't mean to cause upset. It sort of blew my mind because the actual overall survival rate (we will all be 44/45) is about 60%. I'm sure that's just bad luck but a sobering thought none the less.

 

[bankrupt]

Sorry, didn't mean to cause upset. It sort of blew my mind because the actual overall survival rate (we will all be 44/45) is about 60%. I'm sure that's just bad luck but a sobering thought none the less.

I should be the one who's sorry, Pasty.

Sorry because my post was rather badly composed.

And very sorry for your double loss.

Unfortunately, farming friends and relations who have died tragically early by accident (or by their own hand under pressure from their bankers) are far too numerous in my family too.

What I meant to say was that your post was the worst news ever posted here, rather than being the worst post ever posted here, which is actually quite likely to have been one of mine (see above).

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

And how many are falling foul of this one?

(from NFU)

A category B licence also allows the holder to drive on road other vehicles which are registered as agricultural machines. This includes vehicles such as sprayers and telehandlers. There are however age restrictions on the maximum vehicle weights that can be driven by younger drivers.

Description

Min age
Agricultural vehicles up to 3.5 tonne 17

Agricultural vehicles 3.5 tonne to 7.5 tonne 18

Agricultural vehicles over 7.5 tonne 21

Tracked vehicles steered by their tracks are in a separate H category. There is no automatic entitlement to drive vehicles in category H linked to the B category. In order to get the driving licence to drive tacked vehicles steered by their tracks a driver must take an additional H category driving test.

This requirement is sometimes missed by drivers. If you have a category H vehicle which is steered by its tracks check your licence. If you do not have a category H entitlement then you should make arrangements to take the test as soon as possible.

 

[Tomtrac]

And how many are falling foul of this one?

(from NFU)

A category B licence also allows the holder to drive on road other vehicles which are registered as agricultural machines. This includes vehicles such as sprayers and telehandlers. There are however age restrictions on the maximum vehicle weights that can be driven by younger drivers.

Description

Min age
Agricultural vehicles up to 3.5 tonne 17

Agricultural vehicles 3.5 tonne to 7.5 tonne 18

Agricultural vehicles over 7.5 tonne 21

Tracked vehicles steered by their tracks are in a separate H category. There is no automatic entitlement to drive vehicles in category H linked to the B category. In order to get the driving licence to drive tacked vehicles steered by their tracks a driver must take an additional H category driving test.

This requirement is sometimes missed by drivers. If you have a category H vehicle which is steered by its tracks check your licence. If you do not have a category H entitlement then you should make arrangements to take the test as soon as possible.

Just fly on the ointment
But you can pass your hgv class at 17-18 now so your quote may be slightly wrong my lad passed his in 2007 at eighteen on his second go just did his rigid class 2 in my day didn't bother with artic only allowed 50 mile radius of base and pose have to be family.