Detectorists, a Farmer's Kryptonite?

[Barrylimestone]

Dear farmers & landowners,

I have been living/studying in the UK since early 2016. Originally I am from the Netherlands, where I go metal detecting a lot (when I'm there). I love history, and detecting is a real passion of mine.
I only brought my detector with me to the UK recently, as I really miss detecting more frequently like I used to for years.
After trying to contact local farmers in East & West Sussex for permissions though, I soon found that on this side of the Northern Sea things are a little bit different..... (albeit the laws are more relaxed).
I tried asking permission in a variety of ways, many times (30+ at this point), to no avail so far. Although some very nice and helpful people did reply, usually, I don't hear anything back, or only receive short responses like ‘No’ & ’No Thanks’. Clearly, farmers here (probably for good reason) aren't huge fans of metal detectorists, it almost seems like we're a form of Kryptonite to them/you haha.

Now, I could try (like other people have done) to ask for permissions here on this forum, but that seems pretty futile. Therefore, instead, I would like to ask you what bothers you most about people asking for permission. What in the way someone approaches is the thing that makes you say NO? Or alternatively, what is something that makes you seriously consider granting someone permission?

I'd genuinely like to try and understand, so I can change my approach, because clearly my current one isn't working at all.

When it comes to conduct, I imagine there must be a (hopefully) small group who ruins it for everyone, not respecting peoples work and privacy, leaving holes open with trash on the side, etc.
Maybe it's not so much this small group, but just the fact that the hobby seems to be so incredibly popular in the UK? If I put myself in a farmer's shoes, I can imagine that getting daily request must be really annoying.


Some of the things I always make sure to state (seems to be the usual stuff) are that:

- I'm an insured member of the NCMD
- I leave the place where I dig as I found it (fill in holes)
- Don't bring over dozens of people (I own two detectors, so sometimes ONE friend or my GF joins me)
- Will report finds to the local FLO
- Show finds to the land owner
- Share treasure (and am willing to sign a contract if necessary), not that I have ever found a treasure before
- Understand people's farms are both their place of work and their private homes
(Which is why I explicitly state/offer to introduce myself in person in my letters, rather than barging in unannounced when I see a farm. I would hate it if people randomly walked into my yard too.)
- That I'm more than happy to explain and show everything in person (kind of the same as above)


Maybe I should offer the farmer himself to join me (seeing I have two detectors), that might change their understanding of the hobby?
View attachment Document 16 (1).pdf

To give some more background I have attached a file (it's a generic letter I put in peoples mail boxes), to give you an idea of my current approach.


I'd really appreciate some feedback, I would honestly like to understand the farmer's perspective better!


Best,

Folly den Toom

 

[Barrylimestone]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/bvxsxv1ihmbsps8/Document 16 (1).pdf?dl=0 (the letter)

 

[Wellytrack]

That’s something I could never understand about Superman. An Alien living on Earth Invulnerable to almost anything except a mineral from his home planet..

 

[Alchad]

I think I've said this before in response to similar questions, but basically I don't want strangers wandering around on my land. You might be the nicest guy on the planet, but you're a stranger, for all I know you might be a genuine hobbyist, but equally you could be quietly listing out all my kit and planning the best way to come back a week or a few months later to help yourself. Also given the remote likelihood of anything of value being found, there's nothing in it for me and I'm not sure I'd even be prepared to let anyone search even if they paid me - well I might but it would be in the hundreds not the tens of pounds.

 

[Barrylimestone]

I think I've said this before in response to similar questions, but basically I don't want strangers wandering around on my land. You might be the nicest guy on the planet, but you're a stranger, for all I know you might be a genuine hobbyist, but equally you could be quietly listing out all my kit and planning the best way to come back a week or a few months later to help yourself. Also given the remote likelihood of anything of value being found, there's nothing in it for me and I'm not sure I'd even be prepared to let anyone search even if they paid me - well I might but it would be in the hundreds not the tens of pounds.

Thanks for your reply, I really do appreciate it.

That is not to say I fully agree or understand all of your points, but nonetheless, you are the farmer and it's your land so you have the right to decide what you want to do with it. I can only respect that. Below if wrote down some thoughts. I'm being serious not funny or sarcastic, just in case it comes across that way. What I wrote down was just me thinking aloud basically.


|
|
|
|
V

- The part about strangers I understand, but then I personally hope to get to know the farmer a bit and return to the same spot frequently over a longer period of time when I go detecting (if they want to get to know me anyway, they don't always want to).
But I can understand it's not a nice idea to know there is someone you don't know wandering around your property (which is why I offer to introduce myself normally and have a chat about everything to get to know each other a little bit).

In my experience the fields where I'm allowed to search are often not near the farm building itself, so there isn't much people could plan on stealing there, apart from dirt haha. I don't own nearly as much property as a farmer, so I don't know if it feels the same when someone is walking on your property when it's so vast, I mean compared to someone walking through your backyard (which is of course very much inside of a person's private living zone).

If for the sake of this idea the other variables you mentioned didn't play a role for you personally, would a photocopy of someone's ID make a difference? That way if they do end up being a thief, you'd know who they are. I get being weary, I'm sure there are many unsavoury characters around, but it seems like the chance of someone wanting to rob you of all your expensive equipment etc, is pretty low (especially if they're miles from the actual farmhouse). But hey, I do get what you're saying when it comes to that. Maybe if you only let a few select people dig it would feel different too. I get that if it's different people digging every day, or big clubs, that it would feel different compared to a regular guest. Say a friend or personal acquaintance asked, would you let them because you know them well? I guess back where I grew up (a relatively small community) everyone knows each other, so the chance of someone being a random thief is smaller lol. Maybe that's why people don't mind me detecting there.


- Regarding there being nothing in it for you, that depends on how you view it. People get a lot of enjoyment out of it, so it might feel nice that you're enabling people to practice a hobby that they love. In particular because it's a hobby in which people are always dependent on landowners enabling the practice of it, it's not like you can keep digging your own backyard forever.. unlike with some other hobbies.

Kind of like ho other hobbies and activities don't always need to yield a monetary reward. Say someone owns a lake, they don't need to get anything back out of it if people enjoy fishing there. Then again, I can imagine if tens of people ask on a weekly basis (depending on the size of the lake/pond...) I could feel different about that if I were in that position (of owning a pond), and might charge money. I guess that's just a personality difference. I actually have a brother who's similar to you, nice guy (shout out to Jesse den Toom, in case he ever Googles his name and comes across this lol). When it comes to detecting he really doesn't get it. He's like 'but what's the point if you don't find anything valuable'. And I'm there like 'But it's magical that you're recovering these potentially ancients artefacts, seeing, touching, and smelling them as the first person in centuries! Only guessing at what stories are behind them ending up where you found them'

I guess not everyone is connected to that sort of 'magical' feeling.

If only there were places to dig (other than the beach where you only find modern stuff) where you don't need permission. I asked my local council and woodland trusts etc., but they don't allow it.

There is another good reason why it's important to recover items even if they're not valuable though.

The history, the items in the ground, they don't get any younger. Intensive farming techniques (using acidic fertiliser, and plowing) really do destroy finds over time, especially bronze and copper items. When they aren't recovered now, they will be lost to history. Meaning that in due course they will all degrade to the point that they're difficult to ID. This is mainly in relation to coins and similar smaller artefacts. I spoke to older detectorists, who say that finds (at least in the Netherlands) used to be so much better quality wise, when they see what I'm pulling out of the ground these days. That's all I've ever known though, I was born after 'the golden days' of detecting I guess.

(Regarding the comments about intensive farming, I have nothing against farming! We all need to eat and should be thankful for farmers, we've all become so detached from where our food comes from, it doesn't grow at the back of the supermarket. It's the supermarkets and us the general consumers who want more for less all the time, so it's not your fault you need to use those techniques. I'm not pretending to know anything about farming, but I became friends with a farmer in the Netherlands (though detecting) who always talks about how things work these days. That's what he tells me anyway.)

Lastly, if no one ever tries, you will never know if there is 'treasure' there or not. Although again I as a detectorist am not looking for 'treasure'. I guess in that sense you're not loosing anything, and anything you gain is a bonus. Same goes for people paying for permission, you get a nice bit of extra cash, and they get to dig. If they do find that hoard (although the chance is very very small) that's a bonus, otherwise, they aren't stealing your land. And the items that are recovered would have stayed in the ground otherwise.



Just my thoughts though, again I appreciate your comment a lot!


Best,

Folly

 

[Pedro-glebe]

Hi
I have allowed 1 guy to detect on my land he has always brought his finds to show me and I now have quite a collection of items - nothing very valuable- just interesting a couple of silver coins old buttons lead musket balls and various bit belonging to machinery from over the years !
It is his hobby - I don't charge him - we are now good friends
Good result for us both !!