Deutz Agrotron 165 mk3

[Winnerjd]

Hi All. Looking for some advice. I have been looking at a 2001 Agrotron mk3. A few things I have noticed and wondered if they are serious problems. Firstly, the brakes seem bad and it appears to be only pulling on one side. What might the problem be?
Second. I heard a grind or rough noise when I use the forward/reverse shuttle lever and I hear the same noise when going up and down on the gears. Sounds like its around the back end. Is this very serious. No.3. The pto will not stop with the press button. Again what could this be.. Any advice greatly appreciated.

 

[Pushdyke]

Hi All. Looking for some advice. I have been looking at a 2001 Agrotron mk3. A few things I have noticed and wondered if they are serious problems. Firstly, the brakes seem bad and it appears to be only pulling on one side. What might the problem be?
Second. I heard a grind or rough noise when I use the forward/reverse shuttle lever and I hear the same noise when going up and down on the gears. Sounds like its around the back end. Is this very serious. No.3. The pto will not stop with the press button. Again what could this be.. Any advice greatly appreciated.

Now Then
Sounds like there's something wrong with the brakes

They should pull evenly

A slight noise when the shuttle is moved form forward to reverse.Not going through the gears on the button

Did you have an implement on the pto
If you have nothing on, it will stop when the selector lever is put in neutral.

 

[Winnerjd]

The same noise is made when I go up an down on the buttons as when i move the forward/ reverse lever. Like a rough gear noise. I didn't have any impliment on the pto. But surely it should stop dead with the brake. Otherwise how would I get on a PTO shaft. It does stop when the lever is in neutral. But surely I should be able to leave it in 1000 and use the button to stop start. !

 

[Yale]

Walk away!

 

[DrDunc]

Walk away!

What he said

 

[Winnerjd]

Sounds bad lads. I assume its major gearbox overhaul?

 

[kill]

Walk away!

Don't you mean "RUN" ?????

 

[Barleycorn]

The brake issue will be the handbrake shaft that goes across above the axle. It seizes, we have modified ours by fitting grease nipples.
As for the PTO and gearbox problem as suggested I would leave it alone.

 

[Winnerjd]

The brake issue will be the handbrake shaft that goes across above the axle. It seizes, we have modified ours by fitting grease nipples.
As for the PTO and gearbox problem as suggested I would leave it alone.

Thanks Barleycorn. Sounds like a costly fix alright. Currently running away ?

 

[njneer]

Brakes the. Probably a sieges cross shaft has caused the brakes to drag and wear on one side and will require stripped and renewed.
Gearbox noise could just require a good calibration , the noise may just be the slack getting taken up in the packs because it has not been calibrated for some time same for the forward reverse they always did have a bit of a clunk as they take up the drive .
It could however also require a full strip and refurb of all the packs which is a fairly big job .
Pto could be a buckled plate , caused by previous slippage, causing the shaft to drag not a huge job to repair.

If it was a tractor you already owned then a simple calibration would determine whether further surgery was required brakes and the pto wouldn’t take much to investigate.
As it’s a tractor you are looking to buy ,unless the dealer is willing to put it right before purchasing , then I am sure you will find a better example elsewhere which doesn’t require the work.
If you are looking for a project then when fixed it would be a good machine but you would need to be buying it very very cheap to
Allow for the repairs.

 

[Winnerjd]

Brakes the. Probably a sieges cross shaft has caused the brakes to drag and wear on one side and will require stripped and renewed.
Gearbox noise could just require a good calibration , the noise may just be the slack getting taken up in the packs because it has not been calibrated for some time same for the forward reverse they always did have a bit of a clunk as they take up the drive .
It could however also require a full strip and refurb of all the packs which is a fairly big job .
Pto could be a buckled plate , caused by previous slippage, causing the shaft to drag not a huge job to repair.

If it was a tractor you already owned then a simple calibration would determine whether further surgery was required brakes and the pto wouldn’t take much to investigate.
As it’s a tractor you are looking to buy ,unless the dealer is willing to put it right before purchasing , then I am sure you will find a better example elsewhere which doesn’t require the work.
If you are looking for a project then when fixed it would be a good machine but you would need to be buying it very very cheap to
Allow for the repairs.

Would the fact that it has been sitting in a yard for a year unused and also no sign of any backend oil on the sight glass be a factor also. The tractor is relatively cheap. I'm just not familiar with those type of transmissions. Only traditional schryno boxes. Should the dealer be able to identify those problems pretty easily. He just wants to sell it as it is without spending time on it. But surely his mechanics should be able to identify the problems?

 

[njneer]

Would the fact that it has been sitting in a yard for a year unused and also no sign of any backend oil on the sight glass be a factor also. The tractor is relatively cheap. I'm just not familiar with those type of transmissions. Only traditional schryno boxes. Should the dealer be able to identify those problems pretty easily. He just wants to sell it as it is without spending time on it. But surely his mechanics should be able to identify the problems?

Yes a lack of oil can cause noise as the transmission pump tries to draw oil a change of oil
And filters and a calibration could make a world of difference to the gearbox , it’s not going to solve the brakes or pto though.
Depends whether it’s a Deutz dealership or not as they will need the tool to do the calibrations but it’s not a big job to do the calibrations with no parts and minimal labour required so ask them to calibrate it then try it and make a decision . If it’s no better then you can decide.

 

[Serup]

We have run deutz with zf 6 speed transmissions for over 20 years. Never had any expensive issues with them. As mentioned, the brakes can seize up under the cab. It’s outside the backend and cheap to fix. We also put grease nipples on a few.
the pto run slowly on all ours when in gear and no implement on. When it’s connected to just a one rotor rake, it won’t move. we put them in neutral when we take axles on or off. I wouldn’t consider it an issue. My oldest is over 14000 hours of hard work.
The shifting noise i don’t know, as i have never experienced it.

 

[feilding]

We have run deutz with zf 6 speed transmissions for over 20 years. Never had any expensive issues with them. As mentioned, the brakes can seize up under the cab. It’s outside the backend and cheap to fix. We also put grease nipples on a few.
the pto run slowly on all ours when in gear and no implement on. When it’s connected to just a one rotor rake, it won’t move. we put them in neutral when we take axles on or off. I wouldn’t consider it an issue. My oldest is over 14000 hours of hard work.
The shifting noise i don’t know, as i have never experienced it.

Same here , had Deutz since 2004 , never had a problem, just service items.

 

[Winnerjd]

Thanks for all the advice. I'll get back to the garage tomorrow and see what we can find.

 

[Winnerjd]

Yes a lack of oil can cause noise as the transmission pump tries to draw oil a change of oil
And filters and a calibration could make a world of difference to the gearbox , it’s not going to solve the brakes or pto though.
Depends whether it’s a Deutz dealership or not as they will need the tool to do the calibrations but it’s not a big job to do the calibrations with no parts and minimal labour required so ask them to calibrate it then try it and make a decision . If it’s no better then you can decide.

Just wondering if you might be able to answer a few more of my questions. You are obviously very knowledgeable on the Deutz. Firstly. How can I tell the difference between the transmission just needing a calibration or if the packs need to be overhauled. What are the symptoms of wear on packs ? As you said the brakes are possibly a straightforward fix. PTO possibly not too bad either. It's the gearbox I'm really trying to figure out. The garage man seems to have no answers and thinks its driving fine as he took it as a trade in.
When driving the tractor. Each time I pressed the power shift button up or down then I got an immediate response but it made that clunky/rough noise. Exact same noise when I used the forward/reverse shuttle lever. When parked ..if I flick the shuttle lever forward and back without moving. It makes the noise each time. Not sure I'm explaining it that well. But in your experience does it sound more like a fill of oil and calibration is needed. ? If clutch packs were worn would there be other tests I could do to identify the problems.. Thanks.

 

[Yale]

Just wondering if you might be able to answer a few more of my questions. You are obviously very knowledgeable on the Deutz. Firstly. How can I tell the difference between the transmission just needing a calibration or if the packs need to be overhauled. What are the symptoms of wear on packs ? As you said the brakes are possibly a straightforward fix. PTO possibly not too bad either. It's the gearbox I'm really trying to figure out. The garage man seems to have no answers and thinks its driving fine as he took it as a trade in.
When driving the tractor. Each time I pressed the power shift button up or down then I got an immediate response but it made that clunky/rough noise. Exact same noise when I used the forward/reverse shuttle lever. When parked ..if I flick the shuttle lever forward and back without moving. It makes the noise each time. Not sure I'm explaining it that well. But in your experience does it sound more like a fill of oil and calibration is needed. ? If clutch packs were worn would there be other tests I could do to identify the problems.. Thanks.

I was thinking about you when I was on out m620 the other day.

When you change powershift you get a clack as the gears take the slack from one to the other PS but it sounds like just that,not a disturbing noise.

Difficult to explain.

The Valtras we have don’t do this and when ever I hear a Case or New Holland it make me raise an eyebrow.

 

[Winnerjd]

Yes and I'm finding it difficult to describe the noise. I suppose it's like a clack as you

I was thinking about you when I was on out m620 the other day.

When you change powershift you get a clack as the gears take the slack from one to the other PS but it sounds like just that,not a disturbing noise.

Difficult to explain.

The Valtras we have don’t do this and when ever I hear a Case or New Holland it make me raise an eyebrow.

Yes the noise is difficult to explain. It's like a clack as opposed to the noise you would hear from gears grinding..its almost like the noise the puh would make if it was hitting the underside of the tractor..

 

[Thick cut]

The F/R do clonk a bit when selected but a calibration might help. The splitter clutches pressures can be check by putting a pressure gauge in valve chest by removing the pressure switch and you should get 18bar reading when using F/R and the splitters. Also remove the valve chest end tin cover by removing the big clip and check all the solenoid valves are still position as they are prone for breaking the small horse shoe clip or breaking the solenoid clip groove end.
The only major problem with the splitter clutches could be the clutch baskets are riveted back to back and the rivets can go loose allowing the pressure loss in the clutches.
The brakes are not the best even when new on the older Agrotrons but as the handbrake top linkage shaft could be tight as mentioned by others. The pto does not have a brake system, so engage/disengage several times and see if stops rotating then as it could be just cold oil drag or bent plates.

 

[Winnerjd]

The F/R do clonk a bit when selected but a calibration might help. The splitter clutches pressures can be check by putting a pressure gauge in valve chest by removing the pressure switch and you should get 18bar reading when using F/R and the splitters. Also remove the valve chest end tin cover by removing the big clip and check all the solenoid valves are still position as they are prone for breaking the small horse shoe clip or breaking the solenoid clip groove end.
The only major problem with the splitter clutches could be the clutch baskets are riveted back to back and the rivets can go loose allowing the pressure loss in the clutches.
The brakes are not the best even when new on the older Agrotrons but as the handbrake top linkage shaft could be tight as mentioned by others. The pto does not have a brake system, so engage/disengage several times and see if stops rotating then as it could be just cold oil drag or bent plates.

The pto stops dead when in neutral..are you saying that I have to move it to the 540/1000 position each time I want to engage it ? If so what is the yellow button with the red light for? Another thing I noticed is that when moving the PTO lever to the selected speed it does give a slight gear grind ? I'm assuming that is not normal?