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Do any arable farms employ someone specifically for the night-shift?
- Thread starter Feldspar
- Start date
Feldspar
Member
- Location
- Essex, Cambs and Suffolk
Indeed. It certainly provoked a reaction in a couple of people!
It brings up a good point though, which I think is for some businesses it wouldn't make any sense financially to work in the night whereas others it would -- ties into my point about how machinery is owned / leased and how it is accounted in the management accounts. Horses for courses. I would say thought that @silverfox's crops always look jolly good so he must be doing something right.
- Location
- Suffolk
First question: I think that realistically it is unlikely for any purchase decision to be made to buy a machine that can only cover the workload if it is double shifted. I think it's more of a tool to use when things get stretched. Its often considered here but rarely if ever actually used. Mainly because of the practical reasons mentioned, i.e having enough drivers, supporting the machine with more drivers for seed cart, running out of ground, weather etc.
Which also answers the second question and brings us back to an earlier point. On paper in the office all machinery should be double shifted 24hrs/day. But practically a system geared up to work just in the daytime can't just switch to running double shifts without extra resource, IMO its all or nothing
kiwi pom
Member
- Location
- canterbury NZ
I've just come off 10 years of rotating shifts on a milk tanker and I think I preferred nights to days, although I didn't like finishing after 5.30 am always found it harder to sleep.
Judging by the number of tractors, sprayers etc I saw working at night i'd say its fairly common here.
@Feldspar For what you're proposing I don't think swapping from days to nights on a random basis for a month or too would be that hard really.
Talk to your staff and see what they think, it may not be a case of working later maybe someone would be keen to start at 3 or 4 am if it meant they could be finished mid afternoon then someone else could work later to keep wheels turning.
Do you run flat out all weekend? could someone have a day off in the week and do a long day on a sunday?
Do your staff rely on long hours at peak time financially or are they happy with shorter hours?
Do you let or are staff capable of making decisions if things don't go to plan?
Sorry that's lots of questions.
Judging by the number of tractors, sprayers etc I saw working at night i'd say its fairly common here.
@Feldspar For what you're proposing I don't think swapping from days to nights on a random basis for a month or too would be that hard really.
Talk to your staff and see what they think, it may not be a case of working later maybe someone would be keen to start at 3 or 4 am if it meant they could be finished mid afternoon then someone else could work later to keep wheels turning.
Do you run flat out all weekend? could someone have a day off in the week and do a long day on a sunday?
Do your staff rely on long hours at peak time financially or are they happy with shorter hours?
Do you let or are staff capable of making decisions if things don't go to plan?
Sorry that's lots of questions.
- Location
- Suffolk
Exactly. Plenty of marginal gains to focus on first before being a heroic all nighter!
Feldspar
Member
- Location
- Essex, Cambs and Suffolk
It depends on whether that ends up meaning a hyper-stressed day period or not with every last minute being micro-managed. Think that could be counter-productive if pursued too doggedly.
It doesn't need to be heroic if you find someone who actively enjoys it. More heroic is trying to do 20 hours shifts with one person.
Sorry, the grass cutting in NZ was 1 shift at night - too hot and dry in the day time and you knocked the seed out the head.
Running drier was here in UK, we only did that because the drier was slow as sh!t and when we had wet stuff to dry. Maybe a week or 2 a year.
- Location
- Suffolk
Fair point, everything in balance.
Hypothetical argument following that logic: To get the most of the night shift you'd need a manager on night shift. So 2 managers. But theres only enough land to pay for one manager. Do you pay each manager half? Or can the night shift situation only be activated when theres enough to pay for 2 managers?
Hasn't been mentioned yet but one situation that does work very well 24/7 on 2 shifts is pea vining. Main manager around during day and has night shift manger. But that is a very different setup to normal harvest/cultivation/application. Factory demand, one job, specialised machines etc
Feldspar
Member
- Location
- Essex, Cambs and Suffolk
I still think that a well managed double shift system should be more relaxing rather than less for people working. Similar to the sprayer bowser discussion; if you can rotate the sprayer and bowser driver then both get more rest than operating two sprayers.
Feldspar
Member
- Location
- Essex, Cambs and Suffolk
Wouldn't do it with a manager overnight and I don't think you'd need one either. I would be available on the phone until later at night. Main foreman available earlier in the morning.
On set shifts, with 12 hours working and 12 hours rest, you get far more from the staff than doing 15 or 16 hours with 1 person. But the system needs to be set up for it, with servicing and fueling done during the light, and the night shift having a clear plan of what there is to do. Moves on the road, awkward fields, changing points etc all need to be done by the day shift, so night man literally just has to drive. Its just about understanding what is harder at night so you get the best from the time.
- Location
- Suffolk
I think part of the issue is that everything surrounding the job isn't particularly conducive to working at night. How many dealers would come out to fix a tractor at 8pm, let alone 3am? Moving machinery to next block isn't easy, but still possible. Quality of work can't be monitored, unless your operator is good enough, but its unlikely that your best operator wants to work at night. Not trying to be defeatist but there seems to be a fair bit against it working well
- Location
- Suffolk
So you and your foreman are still "working" long days. I know 9 days out of 10 there wouldn't be a problem but when your operator rings at 11pm with a problem you've got to go and sort it so you're still working a long day?
The thing works for the operators, its management input that is the difficult thing. Because fundamentally if someone is on the farm, they need someone to be aware of what they're doing, if nothing else for safety reasons
Seems to me on here there are those who have done it, and know how it works and what the limitations and benefits are, and those who just see cost and potential problems.
Yes there are potential problems, but there are also potential benefits. And for those who do it regularly with the proper process and systems in place, then its not an issue and you get a lot of output. But doing it for a week in the middle of harvest using a regular worker who you expect on the corn cart 2 days later at 8am? Not going to work.
Yes there are potential problems, but there are also potential benefits. And for those who do it regularly with the proper process and systems in place, then its not an issue and you get a lot of output. But doing it for a week in the middle of harvest using a regular worker who you expect on the corn cart 2 days later at 8am? Not going to work.
Feldspar
Member
- Location
- Essex, Cambs and Suffolk
No, because I wouldn't expect to be troubled early in the morning, and our foreman wouldn't expect to be troubled late in the day. Would only consider doing this if we had someone pretty exceptional with a very high level of independence who was keen to do it.
- Location
- Suffolk
Just to be clear, I'd like it to work, but yes I admit not having actually seen it work in person. I'm probably just too used to working with a team who are very used to working very rigid hours and take a lot of input from me to make decisions or change plans etc
Feldspar
Member
- Location
- Essex, Cambs and Suffolk
I don't think we would ever look to do anything like this suddenly. It would be something that would be planned for 5-10 years out which would allow the business to evolve into it.
- Location
- Suffolk
- Location
- Suffolk
That's probably a good idea, and I think it might be something that starts to happen more in the future as kit becomes easier to drive with automation and the push for more efficiency from fewer machinery units per land area.
I heard of one of the maize gangs in the fens only working only overnight for a time so that the roads were quieter. They were on a 30 mile round trip though and this made the difference of having extra trailers on. But thats a whole different can of worms about maize, AD, growing it in the fens, and harvesting it sensibly!