No we are not on the levels we are illminster side of the blackdown hills not far form the 303 in fact we have some away land thats on top the hill right next to the 303
Our rain goes on down to help with the flooding
Do Scottish suckler farmers need support??? Here are the figures
- Thread starter Bossfarmer
- Start date
Our rain goes on down to help with the flooding
Some farms up top the hill would be dryer than here although we most likely get less rain
M-J-G
Member
Of course it has, as I said.
As well as some almost pure sand, there is some very heavy clay here, some so much so that it has been used to line ponds.
In the past decade there have been a lot of practices employed to help improve these heavy clay areas and has transformed the structure of the soil and the usability of the more tough soil types.
Bossfarmer
Member
- Location
- between Perth and Inverness
not sure but 50% of their exports come here
- Location
- Bay of Plenty NZ
We are going round in circles again, if you have looked at all the options and cannot find a way to make it pay, then to be realistic there is only one option left. Sell up and do something else,it really is that simple.
ollie989898
Member
Bossfarmer
Member
- Location
- between Perth and Inverness
You havent been listening, the thread is not about me but the scottish beef sector and its producers as a whole
texas pete
Member
- Location
- East Mids
Palm kernel expeller.
Basically the dross or the husks from the palm oil process - in layman's terms what happens when folk get a bit greedy.
Poor old orangutans lose their home to palm plantations and then the byproduct is shipped here to be fed to cows as feed.
It is rubbish, leaving the ethics of feeding this substandard sh!t to cattle - it is about 50% digestible and takes about 30 hours to be digested to that point. High in copper though.
Basically about as fit to feed to cattle as woodchips and urea....
Not a fan of it
... but not my tea-party ...
I think this one product (and I know there are many others) sums up just how much we are f**king up whole ecosystems, never mind our planet.
ollie989898
Member
we don't grow maize and there is nothing but PP upstream of here but plenty of water in the river todayAh it's you lot growing that maize that's doing it, is it!?
- Location
- Bay of Plenty NZ
I have been listening and I know that the thread is about the Scottish beef sector. If the whole sector and every producer cannot make it pay then that is the end of beef production in Scotland.
I perhaps have more faith in farmers than you do and believe that there will still be Scottish beef production post subsidy removal. It may look different than it does now but will still be there.
Time For me to throw my hat in the ring and then get my tin hat on.
I can see that many people on here think that some posters are moaning and looking for handouts, that is fair as in general a lot are although you have to put it in context. The majority of farmers in Scotland have never known anything other than the subsidised system so you can’t be too critical of them panicking about the vast changes that will come. If you operate any business based on the lie of the land and suddenly the entire landscape changes you MUST be prepared to change with it (easy to say I know) The problem is the great unknown that is ahead. How can anyone plan for a future that has not been seen and how can anyone budget for a future using the figures of the past when all will be different. There is nothing to show that farmers who are currently viable will remain so once the changes take place although they should be the best equipped to do so.
We can compare with the removal of support in NZ in the 80s but this is not reliable as the NZ banks were actively encouraged to make facilities available to Ag. NZ also had the fastest growing market for dairy produce across the water. There are I am sure lessons to be learned from them and I would encourage anyone on here to take a month away and go there and Australia to have a look and find some new ideas. South America also.
The days of single income households has gone and lets think about how much we get from our farms that break even. A home, Utilities paid, A vehicle, Fuel, The room to grow our own food and a lifestyle. Most couples would not get all this from one of their salaries. So what is wrong with one running a farm and the other working off the farm? As a family unit this puts you in the top earning brackets as a couple if you apply the real life value of everything a farm can bring.
On the other hand if you are currently running a unit that you know has no chance of making a profit in the future because of land type etc., why not sell up and buy a unit that you think will be more equipped for the future like a place with good out wintering ground rather than big sheds.
I am probably stupid for returning to Scotland to farm with such a cloudy future BUT. When I left there was no opportunity for a young farmer to be had. The subsidy system was completely flawed and kept us out and kept old men in. Now change is on the horizon and I will take the risk as I know there will be opportunity in the next few years. I am sad that so many people will go under but at least there will be room for more to join. I am lucky as I have a good farm to return to that is rented but it turns a good profit ATM due to low production costs. This may change and I could end up going under too but I will try. I look ahead with hope for us all but anyone who looks in the rear view mirror too much doesn’t have their eyes on the road ahead.
Good luck to you all
I can see that many people on here think that some posters are moaning and looking for handouts, that is fair as in general a lot are although you have to put it in context. The majority of farmers in Scotland have never known anything other than the subsidised system so you can’t be too critical of them panicking about the vast changes that will come. If you operate any business based on the lie of the land and suddenly the entire landscape changes you MUST be prepared to change with it (easy to say I know) The problem is the great unknown that is ahead. How can anyone plan for a future that has not been seen and how can anyone budget for a future using the figures of the past when all will be different. There is nothing to show that farmers who are currently viable will remain so once the changes take place although they should be the best equipped to do so.
We can compare with the removal of support in NZ in the 80s but this is not reliable as the NZ banks were actively encouraged to make facilities available to Ag. NZ also had the fastest growing market for dairy produce across the water. There are I am sure lessons to be learned from them and I would encourage anyone on here to take a month away and go there and Australia to have a look and find some new ideas. South America also.
The days of single income households has gone and lets think about how much we get from our farms that break even. A home, Utilities paid, A vehicle, Fuel, The room to grow our own food and a lifestyle. Most couples would not get all this from one of their salaries. So what is wrong with one running a farm and the other working off the farm? As a family unit this puts you in the top earning brackets as a couple if you apply the real life value of everything a farm can bring.
On the other hand if you are currently running a unit that you know has no chance of making a profit in the future because of land type etc., why not sell up and buy a unit that you think will be more equipped for the future like a place with good out wintering ground rather than big sheds.
I am probably stupid for returning to Scotland to farm with such a cloudy future BUT. When I left there was no opportunity for a young farmer to be had. The subsidy system was completely flawed and kept us out and kept old men in. Now change is on the horizon and I will take the risk as I know there will be opportunity in the next few years. I am sad that so many people will go under but at least there will be room for more to join. I am lucky as I have a good farm to return to that is rented but it turns a good profit ATM due to low production costs. This may change and I could end up going under too but I will try. I look ahead with hope for us all but anyone who looks in the rear view mirror too much doesn’t have their eyes on the road ahead.
Good luck to you all
- Location
- NSW, Newstralya
well said, give yourself a ball rub
I am SO glad there are some with enthusiasm, a positive mindset & who CAN see potential opportunities
I don't think I have ever actually tried to tell members here HOW to farm ( that would plainly be stupid & I apologise if anyone thinks I have ) but have continually encourage them to look at options, maybe change their thinking or attitudes. It is just this CONSTANT negativity, problem to every solution, hand wringing attitude that gets me, but I do understand your point about people only ever knowing one system & how hard it must be to adapt . . . Uncertainties are the scarier than actual reality generally . . .
I'll put a tin hat on now, maybe your time away from home working in another country has helped broaden your outlook ?
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- Location
- Bay of Plenty NZ
well said, give yourself a ball rub
I am SO glad there are some with enthusiasm, a positive mindset & who CAN see potential opportunities
I'll put a tin hat on now, maybe your time away from home working in another country has helped broaden your outlook ?
Ditto.
You beat me to it.
well said, give yourself a ball rub
I am SO glad there are some with enthusiasm, a positive mindset & who CAN see potential opportunities
I'll put a tin hat on now, maybe your time away from home working in another country has helped broaden your outlook ?
When I worked in Kojonup I worked for one of the most forward thinking farmers I have ever met. He had bought up a lot of salt flats and planted salt bush. Turned useless land in to excellent fattening ground for his lambs.
My mindset has been completely changed while here and traveling around sorting seed drills has meant I have seen so much of the different systems used.
Can’t recommend it enough to farmers to send their kids off around the Ag world to bring new ideas and more importantly new mindsets home. Bloody hot down here today mate [emoji29]
- Location
- NSW, Newstralya
@Kiwi Pete says this a lot, but it is something I have thought for years & firmly agree with. Time away from your farm, time spent just thinking, contemplating, doing nothing - is probably some of the most valuable time you will spend
Too many get stuck within their boundary fence, focussing on being constantly busy, that it makes it very hard to see alternatives, options or any other opportunities
Too many get stuck within their boundary fence, focussing on being constantly busy, that it makes it very hard to see alternatives, options or any other opportunities
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The figures posted indicate that the average lowland sucker herd returned £800 that year and the top third £10k which is not much of a living in my book.
- Location
- Bay of Plenty NZ
It should be compulsory for farmers sons to work off farm for at least a year preferably 2 or 3 and preferably overseas, the farmers and the whole industry would be better for it.
When we were still farming in the UK our vet said to me one day you can usually tell the farmers sons who had worked off farm and you could defiantly tell those that had worked overseas, there was no need to ask.
Your post confirms this.
I have offered a lot of UK farmers to help their kids find a good harvest or seeding job out here. Even said they could fly in to Sydney and we would put them up for a few nights before they head out on farm then check up on them from time to time when im travelling around and not a single one has come close to taking me up on the offer. The reply is always the same "They are needed at home"
- Location
- NSW, Newstralya
funny - it is quite rare here for farmers kids to just stay at home
I would say most parents would encourage them to get out a bit
some travel for a while
some work for other farmers
some get trades
some go to college / uni then work elsewhere for a while
then they come back in their late 20's - early 30's having made the decision that is what they REALLY want to do & having seen a fair bit of life beyond the boundary fence as well
A bit like the Amish - kick them out into the big bad world, then when they come back it is THEIR decision
in my opinion, any farm that relies on unpaid family labour, just like subsidies - really needs to look at their business model & wether its viable or not . . .
I would say most parents would encourage them to get out a bit
some travel for a while
some work for other farmers
some get trades
some go to college / uni then work elsewhere for a while
then they come back in their late 20's - early 30's having made the decision that is what they REALLY want to do & having seen a fair bit of life beyond the boundary fence as well
A bit like the Amish - kick them out into the big bad world, then when they come back it is THEIR decision
in my opinion, any farm that relies on unpaid family labour, just like subsidies - really needs to look at their business model & wether its viable or not . . .