Dock Survival !

[AndrewM]

I was under the impression you could use arylex extremely late on cereals as well, around GS45 even? I wouldn't want to be doing that with ally or hormones.

Yeah, used it at gs30 on ww and spring barley with 1/2 ally. Did this because my local distributor had a shortage of straight fluroxypyr, and i didnt want to wait.
Pleased with the results, only about £0.50p acre more expensive.
Not sure about resistance management though, its a recommended mix from corteva.

 

[ollie989898]

What was the level of active product in cimarron, and how does that compare to the generic Ally copies that are available at 200mg strength? I was told that third rate of them on docks would be the right rate for a purely hypothetical grassland situation. And when you say add hormone, which and at what rate?

Cimarron was in tablet form, with the active ingredient- MSM- being included at 500g/kg of product.

The rate of application was 3 grams of product per hectare with each tablet covering 2.5ha so each tablet was 7.5g with two in a pack containing 15g total.

At that application rate, I reckon 1.5 grams of MSM were being applied per hectare.

You could mix cimarron with any hormone, MCPA, 2,4D, CMPP, Dicamba, 2,4DP, I tended to use thrust and polo with hatchet thrown in according to whatever the customer had in store and also what weeds were there besides the docks.

The use of a hormone softend the effect of MSM on the grass and starts the weeds off nicely otherwise you never saw anything happen for 10 days.

Typically, I would use thrust or Polo at about half rate. You can stiffen the hormone component if you have ragwort or nettles or spear thistles, all of which take some killing.

Here is a very handy Headland weed control guide with suggestions for tank mixing.

http://cp.fmc-agro.co.uk/image/catalog/downloads/grassland2016.pdf

There is nothing to stop you using hatchet or thistleX or even pastor if you wanted to spend more money but using the pyridine herbicide family does not soften it on the grass whatsoever and in all likelihood probably hots it up.

I understand cimarron is still authorised for use in Ireland?

Like other products cimarron had weaknesses of it's own. Mayweed and polygonums may be present in some grass leys and they were not too bothered by cimarron on it's own.

 

[The Agrarian]

Thanks for that. No idea about Republic of Ireland rules. Didn't know MCPA would reduce the grass burn.

Locally available is Finy, which is 200g concentration. It has been suggested to me, hypothetically, that 3g/acre of this is plenty on grassland. 3 x .2 is .6, so same as your cimarron rate. My preferred timing would be September, to take less hit on the grass, but have noticed the response isn't great.

 

[ollie989898]

Thanks for that. No idea about Republic of Ireland rules. Didn't know MCPA would reduce the grass burn.

Locally available is Finy, which is 200g concentration. It has been suggested to me, hypothetically, that 3g/acre of this is plenty on grassland. 3 x .2 is .6, so same as your cimarron rate. My preferred timing would be September, to take less hit on the grass, but have noticed the response isn't great.

It is definitely a warm weather and growy conditions product.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

There is no best answer.

I gave links to a whole host of products in another thread. No one product is fully effective on all species.

is there different species of docks , i thought a dock was a dock

 

[Brisel]

Curled and broad leafed docks are both common.

 

[The Agrarian]

It is definitely a warm weather and growy conditions product.

In your opinion, does the MCPA increase efficacy in cooler conditions by promoting plant activity?

 

[DaveGrohl]

Ollie, do you have a link for a good summary of how eg hormone herbs work along with sulfonylureas and stuff like fluroxypyr etc please? Just a nice simple guide would be much appreciated please. Examples of actives too? I find that I know more about fungicides than herbicides and I'd like to correct that. The link you provided earlier in the thread helps.

 

[ollie989898]

Ollie, do you have a link for a good summary of how eg hormone herbs work along with sulfonylureas and stuff like fluroxypyr etc please? Just a nice simple guide would be much appreciated please. Examples of actives too? I find that I know more about fungicides than herbicides and I'd like to correct that. The link you provided earlier in the thread helps.

Im not sure such a thing exists. A lot of agronomists won't know either as its some pretty hard science and not hugely useful. I have a book on plant physiology that is nearly mandatory background reading. You will find things like the journal of plant science will describe them in good detail but most industry guides I have seen do not give any modes of action more than a cursory glance.

I will write a more detailed post when I am home this evening as a lot is long gone from my memory im afraid.

 

[ollie989898]

In your opinion, does the MCPA increase efficacy in cooler conditions by promoting plant activity?

I dont have any evidence or experience that would suggest it does. Both are warm weather products.

 

[Brisel]

Ollie, do you have a link for a good summary of how eg hormone herbs work along with sulfonylureas and stuff like fluroxypyr etc please? Just a nice simple guide would be much appreciated please. Examples of actives too? I find that I know more about fungicides than herbicides and I'd like to correct that. The link you provided earlier in the thread helps.

PM me with an email address & I'll send you an old DuPont spreadsheet with weed species and the best SU + hormone cocktail. Obviously it's biased in favour of their products & there have been new actives released since this was produced in 2005.

 

[Chae1]

Rather than try and kill them, i was thinking today whilst spraying we need to cross a docks genetics with a plant we grow on the farm. There persistence and vigour is to be admired. A field of fallow next to where i wss spraying was thick with them.

Next we can do wild oats.

 

[The Agrarian]

Is there any point putting Ally in with Roundup when doing a reseed?

 

[bobk]

You can kill docks with ally at a much lower rate than that.

10g / ha in new seeds will do the job , stick a litre of fluroxpyr for insurance if you wish

 

[ollie989898]

10g / ha in new seeds will do the job , stick a litre of fluroxpyr for insurance if you wish

On a new ley you can soon kill it with metsulfuron-methyl.

 

[ollie989898]

Is there any point putting Ally in with Roundup when doing a reseed?

No, I categorically would not do this, the residues from the SU might hurt the next crop. I've seen that happen as well.

If you want to go hard at docks when spraying off a ley, use kyleo but even that has following crop restrictions.

 

[bobk]

On a new ley you can soon kill it with metsulfuron-methyl.

Haven't managed it yet .

 

[Boohoo]

Is there any point putting Ally in with Roundup when doing a reseed?

No, I've seen it done and it's a waste of time.

 

[ollie989898]

Haven't managed it yet .

I wouldn't do it. Polo and Hatchet are far kinder to a new ley than cimarron ever was.

 

[The Agrarian]

Been using Foundation on new leys here. But why has mecoprop-p been banned in grassland?