Doubling the Landsides

[Deere 6430]

I have a Dowdeswell DP8B and a friend who does match poughing said to me that as I’m ploughing mixed soil types, clay one end of the field light loam the other, it would be an advantage to double the landsides on each furrow to help keep it from wondering in the different soil types. The rear furrow has the longer landsides and heel water plate already.

Would doubling the other furrow landsides be an advantage? I like to make improvements if I can if it actually makes a difference.

If so would I double all the furrows or just the first three furrows as the last has the heel plate anyway?

 

[JeremyD]

I have a Dowdeswell DP8B and a friend who does match poughing said to me that as I’m ploughing mixed soil types, clay one end of the field light loam the other, it would be an advantage to double the landslides on each furrow to help keep it from wondering in the different soil types. The rear furrow has the longer landslide and heel water plate already.

Would doubling the other furrow landslides be an advantage? I like to make improvements if I can if it actually makes a difference.

If so would I double all the furrows or just the first three furrows as the last has the heel plate anyway?

*Landside!

 

[Sprayer]

Yes we always found fitting spacers, which were available 25 years ago, made the plough run a lot straighter, especially when it was fitted with new points.

 

[Pennine Ploughing]

what you mean by doubling landslides

 

[Deere 6430]

Thank you, you don’t by any chance remember what they were like or how thick? As Dowdeswell don’t have anything.

I guess any packer to move the landslide out a bit would help?

 

[Deere 6430]

@Pennine Ploughing put one landside on top of another to bring the landside edge out a bit from the frog so it runs more inline with the point.

Spacers would probably be better as i think two landsides would almost be too thick but not sure. Also spacers might be cheaper.

 

[Deere 6430]

Do most landsides run inside the line of the point? Or are they actually in line with the point?

 

[ploughman1963]

When new points fitted, the landslide runs inside the line of the point - this is ‘lead’ or ‘suck’ that helps the plough draw in and run straight by pulling against the landside

 

[Deere 6430]

@ploughman1963, thank you, very helpful.

 

[ploughman1963]

Before anyone corrects me - suck is also the amount the point sits below the horizontal. In your case, is the man referring to doubling up as having one landside sitting vertically above the original so say 8” deep instead of 4”. This would make the plough resist being pulled into the unploughed land in light ground.

 

[MrNoo]

Lead to land, certainly with my match plough, if I put too much on it it'll just want to go towards the unploughed land in certain soil types, a right pain when trying to take a single off at the end in sand.
Not enough and it is hard to keep it straight so a bit of trial and error and I have it about right now, it does make quite a difference.
I can take a single off and leave a 6" final furrow in sand and not push the final furrow over and wreck it, all by just twisting the cross shaft, no fannying around moving the plough across.
I think you will always suffer with straightness with differing soil types across a field, get it a lot here with brash one end and clay the other. But in a decent stiff field I can start with a wiggle and 1/4 of the way across the field it will be straight with no effort on my part. A well set up commercial plough will tend to straighten the work up itself.

 

[Sprayer]

Thank you, you don’t by any chance remember what they were like or how thick? As Dowdeswell don’t have anything.

I guess any packer to move the landslide out a bit would help?

Yes that was the general idea, 2 landslides side by side may be a bit thick but worth a try, remember to put the new landside underneath so that the spacer is true and square not narrower at the bottom. We actually ran subsoil blades on the plough when commercial ploughing, bolted between the frog and the landslide, these acted as the spacer. When we didn't want the subsoil blades on we used worn or broken blades as packers. The plough is now 31years old and last won at a ploughing match 4years ago with packers in. Not been to a match since, looking for a driver.

 

[Deere 6430]

Thanks @Sprayer that’s very helpful. Two landsides are too thick. I think I’ll try a spacer out of some flat bar or Dowdeswell have offered some wear pads for the front landsides that could help.

 

[Sprayer]

Thanks @Sprayer that’s very helpful. Two landsides are too thick. I think I’ll try a spacer out of some flat bar or Dowdeswell have offered some wear pads for the front landsides that could help.

I forgot to ask what sort of points have you got on, ours runs on the flat reversible points on UCN bodies. The Ransomes black share was an alternative offered if my memory serves me correctly and was possibly not as "aggressive" but much more costly to run in a commercial situation.

 

[Deere 6430]

UCN with the normal size reversible point so the same as you. Waiting on Dowdeswell to let me know about the wear pads for the landsides, failing that might try making some packers but what thickness I’m not sure, hard to tell really, maybe try some thick form washers around each landside retaining bolt, I don’t have a subsoiler blade to measure.

 

[Sprayer]

I'll try to remember to measure one when I'm near the plough parts in the next couple of days. Whereabouts in the country are you based.

 

[Deere 6430]

Thank you. Gloucestersahire

 

[Bury the Trash]

You can get small points like standard fit ycn ones but they wont make a lot if odds unless its very dry type hard.

Discs on rear furrow or 2 etc help stop too much side draft or ' lead to land' , again as long as the ground is not too hard or you dont have too much stone of course.

 

[Howard150]

I think the sword landsides were about 5 mm thick.

Good ploughing like it or not brings Into play the same principles of physics now as it did in 1834 when Ransomes produced his first YL plough bodies.
What is required is the equilibrium of the force created by the mouldboards against the resistance to that force created by the landside. The biggest change over the last 80 years has been the number of horses at the front of things and the speed at which they travel.

Too much lead to land nearly always leads to rougher work and too big a front furrow. Too little and penetration suffers along with the inability to go straight. Whether too great or too little two things are guaranteed- first the plough will take more pulling and second the consequence of this is that you will use far more diesel.

The force on the landsides has been adjusted by several means over the years and basically revolves around the principle of the line the plough takes relative to the centreline of the tractor. The rear of the plough needs to be marginally closer to land than does the front, thus imposing slight pressure on the landsides.
In the 1940’s Ransomes trailing ploughs had a buck lever arrangement on the drawbar to control front furrow width either wider or narrower. They were produced with only one landside and that was on the back body. The amount of lead to land was set by the pattern of the cast share and different shares were produced accordingly. YL shares had considerable lead to land. Most ploughmen think that the best work was produced when some of this lead had worn off. Similarly RMTM2’s had less lead to land and became progressively harder to use as the lead wore off.
In the 50’s and 60’s Mounted ploughs came into the fore. As long as the plough was in the right place on the cross shaft, the front furrow width was controlled by turning the cross shaft which had pins mounted on cranks at either end, opposed to each other by 180 degrees in the vertical axis. For a plough to run easily, uniformly and correctly then this shaft was rotated a degree or two anti-clockwise when viewed from land, thus imposing force on the landside.
Modern day and techno speak gave us the truline concept. Basically the same old same old that enabled the line the plough is drawn at being marginally offline to the centre axis of the tractor.

Too much force on the rear of the landside increases the force required to pull the plough and also causes the front of the tractor to crab toward land. This force is markedly greater if a press is used, as is the wear on the landsides.

For shims under landsides then it’s very much a suck it and see with too thick and outside the lead to land being the worst scenario. Get things right and the rewards are there to be had. Better work, lighter draught and less fuel.

 

[Roy Stokes]

no fannying around

Some of us like fannying around though ....................................................