Dry or Lube?

[nick...]

Copper grease here too.having said that I thought it had been banned too
nick...

 

[Cab-over Pete]

Thank you all.

Moist is the way.

 

[roscoe erf]

Copper grease here too.having said that I thought it had been banned too
nick...

Banned if you need a tub I’ve some under the counter

 

[CPF]

Banned if you need a tub I’ve some under the counter

££££ black market

 

[ollie989898]

Interesting thread when you get a range of views. For what it is worth, I don't believe copper grease is actually a lubricant for the technical amongst us? May be wrong.

 

[Runs Like a Deere]

Torque settings are for dry, and will probably be too low for lubricated. If I use grease, it will not be on the threads but on the small dish on a steel wheel where the nut sits. If this is rusty it can make the nut impossible to remove without massive force.

As you said torque settings are always for clean and dry, however if you apply grease then the dry torque figure you will have over torqued the studs.

So the science behind it is you apply a torque such that you get a given stretch in a bolt, if you apply a lubricant you can achieve more stretch in the bolt for a given applied torque because it’s easier to spin the nut up tight.

with wheel nuts I like them oiled so they come off easier and go on easier but I always use a bit of judgement on how tight to make them rather than use a torque wrench and a set figure.

 

[CPF]

Interesting thread when you get a range of views. For what it is worth, I don't believe copper grease is actually a lubricant for the technical amongst us? May be wrong.

 

[ollie989898]

View attachment 1003111

I read somewhere it contains sand. The idea being that it is non-metallic and so the particles will hold two pieces of metal away from each other (just enough of a gnats whisker) to stop them bonding together if corrosion sets in.

This being the case, I guess a tiny spot of it between the side of a nut and the wheel probably won't do no harm. Wouldn't put it on the threads though?

 

[Cab-over Pete]

So weasel pi$$ would be better then?

 

[Cab-over Pete]

Banned if you need a tub I’ve some under the counter

Copper slip is banned, or using it on wheel nuts?

 

[dod1e]

I think manufacturers quote dry torque figures because they don't expect Joe Bloggs to have or bother with lubricant.

Up to 90% of the torque applied to a bolt is used to overcome friction in the threads and under the head, so reducing the friction via a lubricant can vastly increase the stretch applied to a bolt by a specified torque level.

Copper slip is an anti-seize compound, but it definitely will reduce the friction of the bolt therefore must be considered as a lubricant nonetheless.

Clean dry threads should be fine at the specified torque level. The trouble starts when they are just wound up "tight", or they are a bit corroded. The correct thing to do would be to replace corroded threads, but this obviously isn't always practical, especially with studs threaded into the hub.

Personally I like a little copper slip on the threads and under the head and then go till I feel a little stretch on the bolts, then I know the stud is doing its job and I'll get it out again, but manufacturers cant recommend this approach for obvious reasons......

 

[ollie989898]

Banned if you need a tub I’ve some under the counter

I don't think vaseline is the product for this- leave it under the counter.

 

[ollie989898]

So weasel pi$$ would be better then?

How do you know if you have the right weasel? Suppose you squeeze the wrong one and get £210 worth of red loctite instead?

 

[roscoe erf]

Copper slip is banned, or using it on wheel nuts?

No idea never heard of it’s use being banned

 

[Cab-over Pete]

Blimey. What a complicated job it is.

 

[roscoe erf]

Blimey. What a complicated job it is.

Only if you let it be

 

[davidroberts30]

I read somewhere it contains sand. The idea being that it is non-metallic and so the particles will hold two pieces of metal away from each other (just enough of a gnats whisker) to stop them bonding together if corrosion sets in.

This being the case, I guess a tiny spot of it between the side of a nut and the wheel probably won't do no harm. Wouldn't put it on the threads though?

sand
its what it says on the label
copper and a medium to hold it

 

[CPF]

Contains soap as well

 

[ollie989898]

sand
its what it says on the label
copper and a medium to hold it

Ho ho ho. Silicon dioxide, commonly known as sand.

 

[DrWazzock]

The other thing is if you stop turning a nut then set off again you’ll probably find the breakaway torque to get it moving again is considerably more than the torque was just before you stopped turning it while it was still moving. So you need to torque up the last turn or so without stopping for a rest until the wrench clicks?
I think this is why some say loosen head bolts before retightening them in one motion.
Generally though I find some get to the stage where I think it’s beginning to fail before I’ve got to torque so time to just leave it alone.