Einstein quoted thru' the medium of Welsh

[Poorbuthappy]

Yep - once you leave the coastal strips it's just grass; only the gradient changes in the LFA. Take a shovel next time, and you will see why - depth of soil is the limiting factor.

Interesting note: LFA ground is often dearer than more fertile farmland, due to neighbour interest - the guys with £200,000 put by are old sheep farmers in LFA and SDA areas, driving beat-up old Toyotas. Arable and spud farmers tend to invest steadily, rather than put money by to buy next door.

So altitude or rainfall make no difference to grass growing ability or farm system?
Sometimes Walter I think you just keep peddling a story to drive home your point, even if it's wrong.
Legal tactic I guess - wear down your opponent. Doesn't make them agree with you or make you always right though.

 

[FonterraFarmer]

The people I speak to on holiday tend to come from cities, or are expats.

They like the way we haven't yet managed to totally homogenise our towns, the varied landscape, the sea (big draw, the sea and coastal paths) and, of course, the chatty natives.

It's becoming ever more popular, both as a holiday destination and as a retirement destination - so much so, that we have a cost-of-care crisis as there are so many elderly residents who have come to live here, from across the bridge. The local councillor for the next County Council ward has just altered to Tory, from Independent, allegedly because so many elderly English retirees have taken up residence there.

My Council Tax has increased substantially because of this.

Bugger

 

[Will Blackburn]

and, of course, the chatty natives.

So when you enter the room the language doesn't switch from English to Welsh?

 

[ski]

“Raising output without increasing costs.”

At last! A saviour! All hail the one who as the obvious answer to our plight! Someone who can for once and for all think outside the box!

Next thing will be government ministers encouraging us to embrace commercial reality, and to reduce our costs and be more efficient!

Why ever didn’t we all think of this before now?!!

Thank God we have experts!

Subsidy?

 

[Walterp]

So altitude or rainfall make no difference to grass growing ability or farm system?
Sometimes Walter I think you just keep peddling a story to drive home your point, even if it's wrong.

You have the wrong end of the stick.

Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the LFA/SDA classification procedure after EEC accession?

At the time, local farmers were involved with the classification procedure (because various subsidy entitlements were impacted) and so the assessments were quite thorough - they are not just lines on a map. Soil types, wind exposure and lots of other factors were taken into account, so that you can make certain value judgements when you see that one farm is in a LFA and another without.

I happen to have learnt a bit about the process (it is now largely forgotten) because one farm is in the LFA and one without, even though both are in the same district. My predecessor was involved in the classification procedure and I can see, after knowing both farms well, how accurate the assessments often were.

That explains why, if you take that trip (you won't, will you? that is interesting) you end up weaving in and out of LFA and lowland for much of the way.

This essentially French method of assessment (the phrase is a direct translation of the French equivalent) is surprisingly useful in lots of ways. Statistical analysis is just one.

 

[Walterp]

So when you enter the room the language doesn't switch from English to Welsh?

Myth.

There are cultural differences, to be sure. The greatest one isn't language but approach - Welsh people tend to be talkative and friendly, often seeming curious about your business just as they are happy to discuss their own affairs. We even have a phrase for it, in the Swansea Valley ('nosey-nice').

It's no secret that I think those-who-must-not-be-named have made a complete mess of their own country - and look like making it worse - largely through their inability to say what they mean.

 

[Glaswellt]

Reads to me they need a Grant for night school to learn to read write and speak english, pathetic pandering to minority's , if they have not taken the time in this day and age to learn English to a degree they can communicate without translators they deserve nothing let alone a bloody grant to buy a direct drill , after all the drill instructions will be in english.

I think you'll find that in most parts of wales, welsh 1st language farmers are in the majority rather than the minority, in this part of north wales i can go about my business for a week or two without having to speak a word of english, contractor, feed rep, accountant, vet, wynnstay workers are all welsh!

I would say that these meetings are held in the language that the majority of the attendees would be the most comfortable in. You'r comments has made me a bit angry!

 

[Poorbuthappy]

You have the wrong end of the stick.

Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the LFA/SDA classification procedure after EEC accession?

At the time, local farmers were involved with the classification procedure (because various subsidy entitlements were impacted) and so the assessments were quite thorough - they are not just lines on a map. Soil types, wind exposure and lots of other factors were taken into account, so that you can make certain value judgements when you see that one farm is in a LFA and another without.

I happen to have learnt a bit about the process (it is now largely forgotten) because one farm is in the LFA and one without, even though both are in the same district. My predecessor was involved in the classification procedure and I can see, after knowing both farms well, how accurate the assessments often were.

That explains why, if you take that trip (you won't, will you? that is interesting) you end up weaving in and out of LFA and lowland for much of the way.

This essentially French method of assessment (the phrase is a direct translation of the French equivalent) is surprisingly useful in lots of ways. Statistical analysis is just one.

Familiar enough to know my past employers laughed at the classification as they were growing good crops of barley on sda land, albeit in a long rotation.

But that's besides the point. You really trying to tell me it's all "much of a muchness" from lowland to hill to mountain, even if you do ignore the huge area of coastland?

 

[Will Blackburn]

I think you'll find that in most parts of wales, welsh 1st language farmers are in the majority rather than the minority, in this part of north wales i can go about my business for a week or two without having to speak a word of english, contractor, feed rep, accountant, vet, wynnstay workers are all welsh!

I would say that these meetings are held in the language that the majority of the attendees would be the most comfortable in. You'r comments has made me a bit angry!

Wynnstay, land agents and plenty of others cannot employ English, English only speakers in North Wales, it may be different in more cosmopolitan mid and south Wales?

 

[Walterp]

Familiar enough to know my past employers laughed at the classification as they were growing good crops of barley on sda land, albeit in a long rotation.

But that's besides the point. You really trying to tell me it's all "much of a muchness" from lowland to hill to mountain, even if you do ignore the huge area of coastland?

We can grow (Spring) barley on both farms, continuously, but plant Winter varieties and you will see just why the demarcation lines were drawn.

You do have the wrong end of the stick - the analysis is allocated to 'lowland', 'LFA', etc and, certainly in the LFA livestock districts, those farms are surprisingly similar by dint of the classification process. The biggest underlying limiting factor, in my experience, is soil depth.

 

[Walterp]

Wynnstay, land agents and plenty of others cannot employ English, English only speakers in North Wales, it may be different in more cosmopolitan mid and south Wales?

You think Mid and South Wales is more cosmopolitan?

Dinefwr, in South West Wales. has the highest concentration of Welsh speakers in Wales. (82%, last time I looked)

 

[Will Blackburn]

You think Mid and South Wales is more cosmopolitan?

Dinefwr, in South West Wales. has the highest concentration of Welsh speakers in Wales. (82%, last time I looked)

It's not about language it's about attitude, and I'll not make assumptions about stuff I don't know about.

 

[Al R]

You have the wrong end of the stick.

Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the LFA/SDA classification procedure after EEC accession?

At the time, local farmers were involved with the classification procedure (because various subsidy entitlements were impacted) and so the assessments were quite thorough - they are not just lines on a map. Soil types, wind exposure and lots of other factors were taken into account, so that you can make certain value judgements when you see that one farm is in a LFA and another without.

I happen to have learnt a bit about the process (it is now largely forgotten) because one farm is in the LFA and one without, even though both are in the same district. My predecessor was involved in the classification procedure and I can see, after knowing both farms well, how accurate the assessments often were.

That explains why, if you take that trip (you won't, will you? that is interesting) you end up weaving in and out of LFA and lowland for much of the way.

This essentially French method of assessment (the phrase is a direct translation of the French equivalent) is surprisingly useful in lots of ways.

The assesment’s cant have been that thorough! I used to farm LFA land and we could subsoil 18” no problem and grow 4.5t/ac wheat crops no problem.

The land I’m farming now is 95% stone, most fields has bedrock sticking out in at least a few places. Mass amounts of salt burn every year all through the year not just in winter can occur. 1/3 of the farm here is not suitable for a quad to drive on and quite a few SSSI’s yet no LFA?

 

[john432]

The people I speak to on holiday tend to come from cities, or are expats.

They like the way we haven't yet managed to totally homogenise our towns, the varied landscape, the sea (big draw, the sea and coastal paths) and, of course, the chatty natives.

It's becoming ever more popular, both as a holiday destination and as a retirement destination - so much so, that we have a cost-of-care crisis as there are so many elderly residents who have come to live here, from across the bridge. The local councillor for the next County Council ward has just altered to Tory, from Independent, allegedly because so many elderly English retirees have taken up residence there.

My Council Tax has increased substantially because of this.

The main reason they come down to live here in rural wales is the cheaper property! Sell up buy a smallholding, spend a fortune renovating, then realise therse no money to be earnt ,and move on! Or people of retirement age fleeing the immigrants.

 

[Will Blackburn]

Or people of retirement age fleeing the immigrants.

There is a word to describe this scenario although it escapes me at the moment.

 

[Pond digger]

Wynnstay, land agents and plenty of others cannot employ English, English only speakers in North Wales, it may be different in more cosmopolitan mid and south Wales?

Racial prejudice then!

 

[Will Blackburn]

Racial prejudice then!

We're pretty amorphous especially in Cheshire, safe to say just prejudice.

 

[Walterp]

There is a word to describe this scenario although it escapes me at the moment.

You are too modest - the decline of the residential areas of cities like Detroit in the 1960's was called the White Flight.

Detroit ended up bankrupt and derelict.

FUBAR.

 

[cropmaster]

Yep - once you leave the coastal strips it's just grass; only the gradient changes in the LFA. Take a shovel next time, and you will see why - depth of soil is the limiting factor.

Interesting note: LFA ground is often dearer than more fertile farmland, due to neighbour interest - the guys with £200,000 put by are old sheep farmers in LFA and SDA areas, driving beat-up old Toyotas. Arable and spud farmers tend to invest steadily, rather than put money by to buy next door.

This is map is a joke some of the best land in wales (grade 2 and some grade 1 ) are on the lleyn peninsula and are nearly all sda or Lfa . my worst land / steepest and stoneyest was gb lowland and my arable ground was sda

 

[Poorbuthappy]

We can grow (Spring) barley on both farms, continuously, but plant Winter varieties and you will see just why the demarcation lines were drawn.

You do have the wrong end of the stick - the analysis is allocated to 'lowland', 'LFA', etc and, certainly in the LFA livestock districts, those farms are surprisingly similar by dint of the classification process. The biggest underlying limiting factor, in my experience, is soil depth.

Thankyou, that at least narrows it down from the comical.
However, as others are posting, there is still huge variation within those designations, as I've seen on my drive home today, detouring up to Fishguard and Newport, down to Carmarthen, across the Brecon Beacons to visit @MJT (thanks ) and then home via Raglan. I'd forgotten how good some of the ground is round the Beacons, with maize and spuds looking well, and some nice soil being ploughed up.
Respect to MJT and @Al R too farming where they do to such a high standard. Very different environments but both with their challenges.
Many thanks to Al for his hospitality and time, and looking forward to trying something different for me from MJT.