Er, no it isn’t

[Clive]

Can't be chuffed to make pizza dough myself, we tend to make pizzas out of giant mushrooms by adding the toppings on top and eat those instead.

I've basically eliminated sugar from my diet and I'm starting on carbs in a bigger way now. Bread is one of the hardest to give up as it is so convenient.

nothing wrong with carbs - just a lot wrong with “bad” carbs or too many carbs

you need carbs - cutting them out completely would not be healthy

balance, moderation, diversity and no UPF’s plus a big of regular exercise and you will do no better than that

 

[FonterraFarmer]

Modern cheese and butter is probably an ultra processed food also.

Not if brought on farm.

 

[FonterraFarmer]

nothing wrong with carbs - just a lot wrong with “bad” carbs or too many carbs

you need carbs - cutting them out completely would not be healthy

balance, moderation, diversity and no UPF’s plus a big of regular exercise and you will do no better than that

Quadrajet = bad carbs....

 

[DaveGrohl]

nothing wrong with carbs - just a lot wrong with “bad” carbs or too many carbs

you need carbs - cutting them out completely would not be healthy

balance, moderation, diversity and no UPF’s plus a big of regular exercise and you will do no better than that

Don’t need carbs at all. There are no essential carbohydrates .The body uses glucose for energy but that isn’t the same thing, as the body can make its own. And glucose isn‘t the only thing that the body uses for energy.

Not that I’m advocating anyone to cut carbs out completely, some are fine, just keep them as near to real food, not processed, as possible. We’re back to the name of the product again aren’t we

 

[DaveGrohl]

yes - iirc he discusses how over simplistic nova is

The biggie with the NOVA classification is having industrially processed seed oils in category 2. That’s insane. They’re the very definition of ultra processed, and they’re in everything. Difficult to avoid them in fact.

 

[Clive]

The biggie with the NOVA classification is having industrially processed seed oils in category 2. That’s insane. They’re the very definition of ultra processed, and they’re in everything. Difficult to avoid them in fact.

rapeseed oil (except cold pressed) should definitely be classified as UPF !


it’s surprisingly easy to cut UPF’s significantly when you are more aware, easier than i thought it would be however it would be very hard to completely cut them firm diet - almost impossible unless you cooked almost everything yourself at home

 

[whitefox]

It's not a milk shake. There is no fibre in milk, for starters.

simple solution,bowl of porridge,with yoghurt,....... but....that aint trendy

 

[ollie989898]

simple solution,bowl of porridge,with yoghurt,....... but....that aint trendy

Carbs.

I'm far from convinced breakfast is even a necessary thing. Not that many years ago I used to go without breakfast daily, do two hours of manual work before I'd even need a cup of tea. There is some evidence that says exercise in the morning on an empty stomach confers more benefit to fitness, cardiovascular health and strength than exercise in the afternoon or evening. I'm currently reading about long-distance enduro runners, some of whom train under this kind of regime.

Very much the dairy farmer kind of training regime- nothing in the morning until they stop at 10am for breakfast.

 

[ollie989898]

nothing wrong with carbs - just a lot wrong with “bad” carbs or too many carbs

you need carbs - cutting them out completely would not be healthy

balance, moderation, diversity and no UPF’s plus a big of regular exercise and you will do no better than that

You can go without carbs if you wanted or had to. The Inuit are one such group of people who spent large periods of their history basically surviving on meat or animal products. Throw in some bone, cartilage, skin and other connective tissues and you almost have some semblance of fibre but it's not optimal for gut health, I think that much is safe to say.

Virtually all of the carbs in our diet are ultra-processed. Bread and pasta, for example have to be processed to become edible. Rice is about the closest you can get to unprocessed food but even had has the husk removed. Potatoes perhaps, so long as you eat the skin and aren't flying them in vegetable fats.

 

[DaveGrohl]

You can go without carbs if you wanted or had to. The Inuit are one such group of people who spent large periods of their history basically surviving on meat or animal products. Throw in some bone, cartilage, skin and other connective tissues and you almost have some semblance of fibre but it's not optimal for gut health, I think that much is safe to say.

Virtually all of the carbs in our diet are ultra-processed. Bread and pasta, for example have to be processed to become edible. Rice is about the closest you can get to unprocessed food but even had has the husk removed. Potatoes perhaps, so long as you eat the skin and aren't flying them in vegetable fats.

Have you changed thinking lately? This seems different from what you’ve said previously.

 

[ollie989898]

Have you changed thinking lately? This seems different from what you’ve said previously.

I believe last time we had this kind of discussion I said your body was designed by evolution to convert material X into form Y if it needed to. Gluconeogenesis in action. Rearranging molecules to suit what is needed.

Glucose is the preferred energy source of the brain. The liver can do a lot some pretty impressive chemical legwork to convert and produce whatever materials are needed. You can try existing on carbs, fats or proteins if you want, but your blood glucose level is regulated by homeostasis to remain within certain levels. Given that carbohydrates, fats and proteins are all largely comprised of the exact same chemical elements (carbon, hydrogen, bit of oxygen and some nitrogen) it just takes some biological alchemy to churn out what any particular organ or tissue wants.

I have not looked at the research even if it exists but in reality I would go with the the human body being designed for scarcity and I highly suspect that occasional bouts of starvation for most of us would do some actual good.

 

[melted welly]

I believe last time we had this kind of discussion I said your body was designed by evolution to convert material X into form Y if it needed to. Gluconeogenesis in action. Rearranging molecules to suit what is needed.

Glucose is the preferred energy source of the brain. The liver can do a lot some pretty impressive chemical legwork to convert and produce whatever materials are needed. You can try existing on carbs, fats or proteins if you want, but your blood glucose level is regulated by homeostasis to remain within certain levels. Given that carbohydrates, fats and proteins are all largely comprised of the exact same chemical elements (carbon, hydrogen, bit of oxygen and some nitrogen) it just takes some biological alchemy to churn out what any particular organ or tissue wants.

I have not looked at the research even if it exists but in reality I would go with the the human body being designed for scarcity and I highly suspect that occasional bouts of starvation for most of us would do some actual good.

Do you ever think you might overcomplicate things?

 

[DaveGrohl]

I believe last time we had this kind of discussion I said your body was designed by evolution to convert material X into form Y if it needed to. Gluconeogenesis in action. Rearranging molecules to suit what is needed.

Glucose is the preferred energy source of the brain. The liver can do a lot some pretty impressive chemical legwork to convert and produce whatever materials are needed. You can try existing on carbs, fats or proteins if you want, but your blood glucose level is regulated by homeostasis to remain within certain levels. Given that carbohydrates, fats and proteins are all largely comprised of the exact same chemical elements (carbon, hydrogen, bit of oxygen and some nitrogen) it just takes some biological alchemy to churn out what any particular organ or tissue wants.

I have not looked at the research even if it exists but in reality I would go with the the human body being designed for scarcity and I highly suspect that occasional bouts of starvation for most of us would do some actual good.

And yet the brain does better when it uses ketones. You also seem to have misunderstood my question. You’ve been pretty pro-carbs in the past but now you seem to be looking to reduce them, hence my question. Which you haven’t answered. It wasn’t me you had the discussion with re gluconeogenesis with btw but I do remember you having it with someone.

 

[tractorsandcows]

I dont choose food on its level of badness, bad is bad ,i would sooner drink ditch water

That ditch water is polluted as Boris died in it

 

[Clive]

You can go without carbs

i wouldn’t if i were you

everything, in moderation and balance. and as little UPF as possible

bread and pasta are not ULTRA processed btw. - they are processed …… BIG difference

read the book i linked maybe ?

 

[DaveGrohl]

I wouldn’t get too carried away with the ultra part of this btw. It’s shades of grey, as with all things, with inevitable blind alleys when you seek to introduce specific cutoff points. And as I’ve pointed out above, when you draw those cutoff points to include obvious anomalies then the wording becomes too important. And the same food made used differently can fit in different categories too.

Using pasta as an example, simply boiling a potato is using far less processing (and healthier) than any supermarket pasta product. All pasta is pulverised to some degree in contrast to boiling a raw potato straight out of the sack. But then again, watch a video on how they make McD fries from a humble potato and you’d view pasta as far far healthier. And then some blame the burger pattie for what the fries, buns, sauces, "milk" shakes and fizzy drinks do as someone has already done. Shades of grey, as with all things.

 

[Clive]

I wouldn’t get too carried away with the ultra part of this btw. It’s shades of grey, as with all things, with inevitable blind alleys when you seek to introduce specific cutoff points. And as I’ve pointed out above, when you draw those cutoff points to include obvious anomalies then the wording becomes too important. And the same food made used differently can fit in different categories too.

Using pasta as an example, simply boiling a potato is using far less processing (and healthier) than any supermarket pasta product. All pasta is pulverised to some degree in contrast to boiling a raw potato straight out of the sack. But then again, watch a video on how they make McD fries from a humble potato and you’d view pasta as far far healthier. Shades of grey, as with all things.

the definition i’m using is if i could make it at home from easy available ingredients it’s fine

processed is fine - i’m not going to start a raw diet as cooking is processing

but i will (and do) avoid eating the many substances in UPF that are simply not food, i’ve done this for 3 months now since reading that book and i can’t begin to tell you how much improved my health and fitness is, every metric you can measure all much improved and i have seemingly double the energy i did, i fell like an immortal !!! my wife has done the same and can report the same massive differences

and i bet our diet before was better than 95% of the general population as we were never really junk food or take away eaters so god knows what it doing to them !


this shite is killing us

 

[SteveHants]

I've just looked at some bog standard supermarket cheddar (Aldi) - Seems to have milk, salt, rennet and one couloring in it.

So, not really highly processed, just...cheese.

 

[sjt01]

i wouldn’t if i were you

everything, in moderation and balance. and as little UPF as possible

bread and pasta are not ULTRA processed btw. - they are processed …… BIG difference

read the book i linked maybe ?

A summary pdf is attached

 

[DaveGrohl]

Once you get past the lol moment at the start (and the utter bollox about environment/carbon) it’s an interesting article. Clearly a UPF. Those ingredients….. uuurgh. Future of food? Good luck with that.

I tried lab-grown, 3D-printed vegan salmon fillet so you don’t have to

The 'salmon-inspired' fillet is made of lab-grown fungi (mycoprotein) mixed with a long list of other things like soyprotein extrudate. If this is the future of food, I pray the apocalypse is well on its way

inews.co.uk

(Bit of a mystery why she says UPFs are scientifically controversial, it’s pretty obvious there‘s something different about them, and she doesn‘t cite anyone for this comment which is telling)