Texel society trial now starting it's second year, if you go on SRUC scanner FB you can see pics of loins being assessed, length, yield, marbling and tenderness are also being looked at, the idea I think is to connect the pedigree breeder with the commercial market end product, Ram compare also doing shear tests (tenderness) because what's the point of fast growth for example if the product is inedible. I personally find it all fascinating , but having spent an afternoon at a ram sale where it would seem top price to be paid was £200 regardless of race or colour, providing it had at least 1 testicle it would do, I think the industry has a little way to go.
EUROP grid still fit for purpose?
- Thread starter hendrebc
- Start date
- Location
- Montgomeryshire
Length wouldn't necessarily mean a good eye muscle though
Animals that are CT scanned routinely have spine length measured now, alongside eye muscle area (not just depth) and gigot shape. Intramuscular fat levels are also being measured now I believe, in readiness for potential future ebv's.
IMO, CT scanning has been an absolute game changer for recording of terminal sire breeds in this country, which is why I've supported it since the early calibration work in the 90's. The cost is subsidised by EBLEX, HCC & QMS and the SAC team have a mobile scanner in a lorry that travels to various sites around the country. However, all breeds still struggle to get many sheep put forward each year. A complaint I've heard was that someone had taken lambs in but it hadn't helped their indexes up, so they were questioning the value of it. The idea is to provide more accurate data for the analysis (think of it as carcass dissection in a live animal), not to artificially inflate any breeding values.
It does seem strange to me how reticent breeders are to really put the lambs on trial, CT scan. and how reticent ram buyers are to look at what is available to help them earn an extra margin, data, info.Animals that are CT scanned routinely have spine length measured now, alongside eye muscle area (not just depth) and gigot shape. Intramuscular fat levels are also being measured now I believe, in readiness for potential future ebv's.
IMO, CT scanning has been an absolute game changer for recording of terminal sire breeds in this country, which is why I've supported it since the early calibration work in the 90's. The cost is subsidised by EBLEX, HCC & QMS and the SAC team have a mobile scanner in a lorry that travels to various sites around the country. However, all breeds still struggle to get many sheep put forward each year. A complaint I've heard was that someone had taken lambs in but it hadn't helped their indexes up, so they were questioning the value of it. The idea is to provide more accurate data for the analysis (think of it as carcass dissection in a live animal), not to artificially inflate any breeding values.
Global ovine
Member
- Location
- Central Otago NZ
Growth rate has always been important, as @Global ovine keeps telling us. High growth rate without fleshing at slaughter weights, that's a different matter of course, although what is 'finished'. The supermarkets might be quite happy with a fat class 2, whereas I suspect you (and I) would consider it under finished.
RamCompare will likely throw up some interesting points on that, and I suspect the results will say that time to slaughter is more important economically than any existing premiums on a E or U grade.
Growth rate is by far the most important trait affecting profitability of the enterprise, but grading affects income per carcass.
The OP is about grading which should be driven from the consumer back towards the source of genetics.
I personally have an issue with any generic grading system as no one size fits all markets, especially if many diverse markets receive product, whether in carcass, primal joints or market specific cuts ready for cooking. This is certainly the case for NZ sheep meats where much effort is now going into market specific cutting that is very different to that used in the UK. Such exports are worth more per kilo return to the processor/exporter making the UK market especially take 2nd place. The last export season to the UK has seen record low tonnages from NZ as emerging markets take the same meat, but in a different form and pay more.
Because of this shift in market prioritisation, new traits come into focus. Eating satisfaction being the number one. Three exporter companies to my knowledge are actively engaged in programmes to sort taste and tenderness. Genetics are screened from leading breeders, large scale progeny tests are carried out where intra muscular fat (IMF), tenderness, colour and pH are measured. EBVs and GBVs are determined using DNA analysis. These processor/exporters know there is a premium for taste and tenderness and are prepared to pay for it once the science is at a stage to guarantee a supply of such animals from producers. One of these companies now own a sheep stud producing maternal and terminal options as part of a future supply chain. Another works with a large breeding group (Headwaters) and with groups of progressive breeders (such as Premier Sufftex and Alpha Ram breeders) to these ends.
Marbling in lambs occurs in all lamb carcasses over 24 kgs. However it occurs in some animals across all breeds at a lower carcass weight.
IMF ranges in all breeds from as low as 1.5% to 5.0% of muscle by chemical analysis of meat. No one breed has dominance from data so far in NZ. But all breeds have similar selection opportunities. The average IMF % has decreased in NZ by about 4% points since the Texel breed has had an influence by its incorporation into both Terminal breeds and maternal composites, but good selection opportunities still exist in the Texel breed. IMF is the lowest hanging fruit for breeders to achieve progress. If consumers want IMF, they will have to put up with some return of subcutaneous fat.
Connective tissue plays a part in the eating of fresh and frozen lamb. Long life chilled product breaks down much of the toughness making for a repeatable eating experience irrespective of lamb age, sex or carcass weight. From what I have been told, toughness will be a harder nut to crack for breeders.
The future for such traits depends on control of the supply chain. Closed supply chains will grow if markets returns are sufficient to share with all players.
Ram Compare will be of far greater value to the sheep industry as a source of clean data for science to tackle these traits, than as a guide to individual farmers to see where the best genes are to fit in with their flock goals.
- Location
- Montgomeryshire
Woolless
Member
- Location
- Berwickshire, Scottish Borders
Regarding the EUROP, I think in the meantime grade should be assessed on gigot and loin, with shoulder only used as a 'tiebreaker' if required.
In the future, some assessment of eating quality has to come in somewhere. I was thinking particularly of beef regarding that. For instance, Scotch PGI beef. What really marks it out as being high quality? Grading on eating quality would protect that brand and others. However @Global ovine has pointed out the increasing importance of eating quality to NZ lamb exports.
Finally, what we need now, and particularly if there are changes to the grading system, is better communication down the supply chain as to what is required. The grid rewards E grades. I heard major processors representatives say that they really don't want anything more than an R. The grid being used to devalue what they really want?
In the future, some assessment of eating quality has to come in somewhere. I was thinking particularly of beef regarding that. For instance, Scotch PGI beef. What really marks it out as being high quality? Grading on eating quality would protect that brand and others. However @Global ovine has pointed out the increasing importance of eating quality to NZ lamb exports.
Finally, what we need now, and particularly if there are changes to the grading system, is better communication down the supply chain as to what is required. The grid rewards E grades. I heard major processors representatives say that they really don't want anything more than an R. The grid being used to devalue what they really want?
- Location
- Montgomeryshire
How can 'Scottish' beef be better in any way, when it can be made up of Highland cattle from the top of a mountain, to pedigree Limousins coming out of a shed in Aberdeen?
Good marketing spin and nothing else.
- Location
- Perthshire, Scotland
How can 'Scottish' beef be better in any way, when it can be made up of Highland cattle from the top of a mountain, to pedigree Limousins coming out of a shed in Aberdeen?
And yet folk are willing to pay more for the Scotch label. IMO the only thing that qms are getting right at the moment
Edit. I've seen some fair heifers going about Aberdeen but I would question their "pedigree"
- Location
- Montgomeryshire
And yet folk are willing to pay more for the Scotch label. IMO the only thing that qms are getting right at the moment
Edit. I've seen some fair heifers going about Aberdeen but I would question their "pedigree"
As I said good marketing.
My ewe flock of NZ genetics, crossed with continental terminal sires is producing sweet Welsh lamb though, which clearly tastes far better than when the same genetics were being killed in Gloucestershire, where they were merely 'West Country' lamb.
- Location
- North Antrim
The consumer loves a story in their head while they're chewing.As I said good marketing.
My ewe flock of NZ genetics, crossed with continental terminal sires is producing sweet Welsh lamb though, which clearly tastes far better than when the same genetics were being killed in Gloucestershire, where they were merely 'West Country' lamb.
Woolless
Member
- Location
- Berwickshire, Scottish Borders
Exactly. Some form of selection on eating quality would help protect the brand image which is extremely valuable to the Scottish agricultural and food industry.How can 'Scottish' beef be better in any way, when it can be made up of Highland cattle from the top of a mountain, to pedigree Limousins coming out of a shed in Aberdeen?
- Location
- Buxton, Derbyshire
I'm coming from a beef perspective but I think all this talk of increasing fat cover and intermuscular fat as eating quality is a misnomer/red herring that farmers lap up as traditionally farmers liked fatty meat. I recently went into a Morrison's in Chesterfield and was looking at the beef shelves, the shelves with the "premium" beef Shorthorn steaks were still full and had reduced tickets on as you could see the big white patches of fat and marbling. Whereas the shelf with the "standard" lower fat steaks were nearly sold out! Speak to any of my friends and they hate fatty steaks and cut the fat off! Why spend ages producing something that goes in the bin! Also look at how the market for "muscle foods" or lean meat is growing. The main people who benefit from extra fat are the processors as it makes it easier for them to hang.
In my opinion we should be looking at meat tenderness and texture as this have as much or more impact on eating quality and flavour as fat. The best beef I've ever had is Blonde, which had little or no fat, due to its very fine texture and tenderness. And I'm not just saying that as a blonde breeder.
In my opinion we should be looking at meat tenderness and texture as this have as much or more impact on eating quality and flavour as fat. The best beef I've ever had is Blonde, which had little or no fat, due to its very fine texture and tenderness. And I'm not just saying that as a blonde breeder.