Extinction Rebellion and Farming

stewart

Member
Horticulture
Location
Bay of Plenty NZ
If a large dairy farm came on here and said they had a girl volunteering to feed the calves of a weekend, would everyone lay into that farmer ?

https://www.facebook.com/MiddleGroundGrowers/
Many years ago when we were dairy farming in the UK a girl volunteered to feed our calves at weekend, I ashamedly admit I layed into her on a regular basis, it all worked out well though and I ended up marrying her, still married 35 years later.
 
Location
southwest
The market still dictates the price, subsidies just distort the market.
The EU supported UK farmers, will the UK continue to do so?
Ironically the two countries that do not subsidise their farmers both have vibrant successful agricultural industries, go figure.

UK govt will continue to support farming, but it will be called environmental support as that's more voter friendly.

And as it's so heavily subsidised, UK farming has a whole plethora of others that it in turn supports-advisers, consultants, a truly ridiculous amount of machinery dealers, the feed, fertiliser and chemical supply industry etc etc.

I wouldn't be surprised if the average UK dairy farm has 3 or 4 times the machinery cost/head of NZ
 

stewart

Member
Horticulture
Location
Bay of Plenty NZ
UK govt will continue to support farming, but it will be called environmental support as that's more voter friendly.

And as it's so heavily subsidised, UK farming has a whole plethora of others that it in turn supports-advisers, consultants, a truly ridiculous amount of machinery dealers, the feed, fertiliser and chemical supply industry etc etc.

I wouldn't be surprised if the average UK dairy farm has 3 or 4 times the machinery cost/head of NZ
At least 3-4 times the machinery cost/head, I would say it is much higher than that, a lot of the machinery cost in the UK is unnecessary, I have friends in the UK constantly complaining they cannot make a profit yet they feed silage all summer, what's the point in that, the cows can get the grass themselves for a much lower cost.
 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
The market still dictates the price, subsidies just distort the market.
The EU supported UK farmers, will the UK continue to do so?
Ironically the two countries that do not subsidise their farmers both have vibrant successful agricultural industries, go figure.
like the NZ farmers pre no sub era, one gets used to subs, and spending them. Supply demand sets market price, the big problem for UK farmers, is that the major buyers, have calculated that sub, into the price they pay for our product. The interesting point about the new ELMS' thing, is it removes the need to produce product, to claim it, then that would lead to the price, solely on supply and demand. I have no doubt some very clever accountants are working hard to find a solution, for their clients, s/mkts, big processors etc, definitely not us farmers. How it will pan out, nobody really knows, the world is becoming politically more unstable, covid has caused a host of unexpected problems with supply, 1 ship blocking the suez canal, creates a huge backlog, wonder how many terrorists are watching that, with interest, brexit buggering about with food chains, all these things make the future difficult to judge. Then chuck climate change on top, and you could end up with a huge mess. The only thing that cannot change, is people have to eat.
It would be an interesting equation, to see where UK farmers would be today, if subs had gone 15/20 years ago, as in NZ, some would go, others would muddle on, and some would thrive, but where would the price of food be ? It is one thing for buyers to include it, but if it wasn't there, they couldn't.
 
Location
southwest
At least 3-4 times the machinery cost/head, I would say it is much higher than that, a lot of the machinery cost in the UK is unnecessary, I have friends in the UK constantly complaining they cannot make a profit yet they feed silage all summer, what's the point in that, the cows can get the grass themselves for a much lower cost.

It's the difference between "how much money can I spend?" and "How little do I need to spend"
 

farmerm

Member
Location
Shropshire
like the NZ farmers pre no sub era, one gets used to subs, and spending them. Supply demand sets market price, the big problem for UK farmers, is that the major buyers, have calculated that sub, into the price they pay for our product. The interesting point about the new ELMS' thing, is it removes the need to produce product, to claim it, then that would lead to the price, solely on supply and demand. I have no doubt some very clever accountants are working hard to find a solution, for their clients, s/mkts, big processors etc, definitely not us farmers. How it will pan out, nobody really knows, the world is becoming politically more unstable, covid has caused a host of unexpected problems with supply, 1 ship blocking the suez canal, creates a huge backlog, wonder how many terrorists are watching that, with interest, brexit buggering about with food chains, all these things make the future difficult to judge. Then chuck climate change on top, and you could end up with a huge mess. The only thing that cannot change, is people have to eat.
It would be an interesting equation, to see where UK farmers would be today, if subs had gone 15/20 years ago, as in NZ, some would go, others would muddle on, and some would thrive, but where would the price of food be ? It is one thing for buyers to include it, but if it wasn't there, they couldn't.
Surely SFP then BPS removed the need to produce produce to claim it whilst with ELMS we will actually needs you to produce some environmental "product" in order to claim it.... Whilst price is indeed driven by supply and demand, the removal of farming subs in the UK will do nothing to change the availability of imported product or demand for exported product, as such the removal of UK farm subs will really provide little pressure on prices. We are going to be increasingly exposed to shocks in global markets, but as consumers and as vendors.
 
Surely SFP then BPS removed the need to produce produce to claim it whilst with ELMS we will actually needs you to produce some environmental "product" in order to claim it.... Whilst price is indeed driven by supply and demand, the removal of farming subs in the UK will do nothing to change the availability of imported product or demand for exported product, as such the removal of UK farm subs will really provide little pressure on prices. We are going to be increasingly exposed to shocks in global markets, but as consumers and as vendors.
Would be interesting to see if subsidies were removed and for farmers to be compulsory paid at the same average hourly rate as local or central government employees.....🤔
 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
Surely SFP then BPS removed the need to produce produce to claim it whilst with ELMS we will actually needs you to produce some environmental "product" in order to claim it.... Whilst price is indeed driven by supply and demand, the removal of farming subs in the UK will do nothing to change the availability of imported product or demand for exported product, as such the removal of UK farm subs will really provide little pressure on prices. We are going to be increasingly exposed to shocks in global markets, but as consumers and as vendors.
it will be 'welcome to the real world' time for many, and there is sweet f all we can do about it, but despite quoting world prices, all the major buyers need UK product, they use imported price, as a way to talk down home product price. But the status quo, has altered, covid, brexit has seen to that, it has altered delivery times, and costs, whether by ports unable to fully function, because of illness or lockdown, trouble at borders, with customs, or covid restrictions. Even the ship stuck in the suez canal, is causing huge backlogs. That means the 'just enough' system, operated by many businesses, relying on daily deliveries, will not function, as before. While europe would have coped with brexit, it is becoming very clear it cannot cope with brexit AND covid, and nationalism is rearing it's head, on the continent, as indeed many other countries throughout the world, and that is dangerous. Perhaps the biggest unexpected benefit of brexit, for the UK, is that we have to go 'global' and extend our trading routes, across the globe, and have to rely on 'good terms' with our new partners, while EU, will only look inwards. Brexit was a political mistake, and should never have happened, but it did, and unfortunately, with covid, has opened a box of worms, that cannot be closed. The results are impossible to forecast, but you can be certain, all those major buyers, are re-assessing their delivery policies.
 

traineefarmer

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Mid Norfolk
perhaps that disaster started with china slipping a nasty little virus out, into the world population ! Not entirely sure if there could actually be a ww3, what country could actually afford it, and of course there is the nuclear threat, if a tit for tat response on that, end of both countries. Nasty vicious spats/wars in 'other' countries will occur, managed to a degree, by those countries suppling the arms, to each side.
China has a problem, it's days of dictating world power are over, India has recognised them as their serious threat, and is asserting it's nuclear power, and building naval bases, around the indian ocean, to thwart chinese shipping lanes, as is russia, to the north. Falling out with australia, has not had it's intended result, the supply of coal and iron ore is cut off. China's options are limited, to 'strike out' and create tension has traditionally been the chinese way, that may no longer have the required effect, which makes for an impending disaster.

China's current trump card is the west's addiction to the cheap throwaway plastic tat that they pump out and their ability to turn it off. With no low cost manufacturing left in Europe and North America there would be public outcry at the sudden unavailability of flat screen TVs, wobbly bookshelves, buggy laptops and ill fitting jeans.
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
Surely SFP then BPS removed the need to produce produce to claim it whilst with ELMS we will actually needs you to produce some environmental "product" in order to claim it.... Whilst price is indeed driven by supply and demand, the removal of farming subs in the UK will do nothing to change the availability of imported product or demand for exported product, as such the removal of UK farm subs will really provide little pressure on prices. We are going to be increasingly exposed to shocks in global markets, but as consumers and as vendors.
If the removal of BPS means that some farms are unviable and given over to trees or whatever and stop producing food then it will have an effect on food price, supply and demand, less supply same demand and the price will go up.

If price is set by supply and demand then even a little less supply will put the price up and talk of imports just don't cut it, where would the import have gone otherwise been thrown away ?
 
If price is set by supply and demand then even a little less supply will put the price up and talk of imports just don't cut it, where would the import have gone otherwise been thrown away ?
Food will go to the highest bidder, in global terms we are a relatively wealthy country, we won’t have a problem outbidding many others if there is a shortage.
However full bellies here could mean hunger elsewhere but out of sight out of mind, at least we as a country will have done our bit saving the planet, planting trees.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 105 40.5%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 94 36.3%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 39 15.1%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 5 1.9%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.2%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 13 5.0%

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