Extinction Rebellion and Farming

[Highland Mule]

What household bills can be paid from pre tax profit ?

I’m sure that your accountant is better placed to advise, but your mobile phone is probably allowable, some part (usually a third including a third of the VAT) of the farmhouse heating and lighting, broadband, household repairs etc. for a start. Then you have access to farm vehicles for doing dump runs, maybe combining a shopping trip with dropping lambs at the mart.

 

[som farmer]

If the removal of BPS means that some farms are unviable and given over to trees or whatever and stop producing food then it will have an effect on food price, supply and demand, less supply same demand and the price will go up.

If price is set by supply and demand then even a little less supply will put the price up and talk of imports just don't cut it, where would the import have gone otherwise been thrown away ?

supply is king, empty shelves = lost profit, buyers/ s/mkts will do whatever it takes, to keep shelves stacked. The fear of those empty shelves, is the only influence farmers have, to alter price, a very very small chance, i admit, but that is the only one that is important. Forget the 'where it comes from' angle, the majority of shoppers don't care.
If you look through the long list of new trade deals, done by Lis Truss, and full credit to her for getting them, most of those countries rely on ag exports, to a greater or lesser extent, then the difference between 'us and them', will be transport cost, and timing. For that, the present disasters, have made that much less certain, certainly not guaranteed.
It is only by producing less, will we see any serious price movement, at the same time, we are being urged, by grants, to become more efficient, buy tech, spread the cost by producing more, etc, then, ask your self why ? For the guv, cheap food is king.

 

[farmerm]

If the removal of BPS means that some farms are unviable and given over to trees or whatever and stop producing food then it will have an effect on food price, supply and demand, less supply same demand and the price will go up.

If price is set by supply and demand then even a little less supply will put the price up and talk of imports just don't cut it, where would the import have gone otherwise been thrown away ?

Not how I see it. Do you really see many land owners whos farms are unviable without BPS choosing to further devalue their asset by planting trees on it? I believe the UK could entirely cease production of many commodities and their world market values would barely show a twitch. If 10% of UK producers gave up we would easily import another 10% of our food requirements by taking it from months elsewhere in the world.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

Food will go to the highest bidder, in global terms we are a relatively wealthy country, we won’t have a problem outbidding many others if there is a shortage.
However full bellies here could mean hunger elsewhere but out of sight out of mind, at least we as a country will have done our bit saving the planet, planting trees.

The Arab spring was not about an uprising of need for democracy, rather it was all about the price of wheat I believe going up, so bread became more expensive, so what I am saying, us choosing to import food (and turn UK Agriculture into a glorified "theme park") will have real world consequences for us, if we outbid poorer countries for our imports.

 

[farmerm]

The Arab spring was not about an uprising of need for democracy, rather it was all about the price of wheat I believe going up, so bread became more expensive, so what I am saying, us choosing to import food (and turn UK Agriculture into a glorified "theme park") will have real world consequences for us, if we outbid poorer countries for our imports.

In the UK I only 11% of the cost of a loaf is the wheat, global wheat price could double and British consumers would hardly notice the increase of 12p for a loaf but for others it would mean starvation.

 

[som farmer]

if SFP is included in the price, the buyers pay, if they had to pay that 'extra' on product, the loss might not be so bad, whether it would happen, different thing. Buyers use 'imported' prices, as a way to keep prices down, but they need a large amount of home produced, to keep things rolling. You hear plenty about world price, but very little about the cost of getting it here, inspected, packed and onto shelves, again, i wonder why ! The world has been relatively settled for years, transport routes have been trouble free, that is altering, anything that makes transport not 'reliable' hits costs, so things will alter, how, remains to be seen.

 

[Henarar]

I’m sure that your accountant is better placed to advise, but your mobile phone is probably allowable, some part (usually a third including a third of the VAT) of the farmhouse heating and lighting, broadband, household repairs etc. for a start. Then you have access to farm vehicles for doing dump runs, maybe combining a shopping trip with dropping lambs at the mart.

well yes I know you can put business expenses against tax like any other business , if you build an office in your garden you could claim all that no different to using your home as an office
don't see the big deal

 

[Henarar]

Not how I see it. Do you really see many land owners whos farms are unviable without BPS choosing to further devalue their asset by planting trees on it? I believe the UK could entirely cease production of many commodities and their world market values would barely show a twitch. If 10% of UK producers gave up we would easily import another 10% of our food requirements by taking it from months elsewhere in the world.

so the price is not set by supply and demand then ?

 

[Highland Mule]

well yes I know you can put business expenses against tax like any other business , if you build an office in your garden you could claim all that no different to using your home as an office
don't see the big deal

The comparison was made to Gov employees - not so easy for them.

 

[farmerm]

so the price is not set by supply and demand then ?

In terms of global supply and demand the UK is a bolder on a mountain

 

[Henarar]

The comparison was made to Gov employees - not so easy for them.

Is the gov's business run from their home

 

[Henarar]

In terms of global supply and demand the UK is a bolder on a mountain

maybe but I still stand by what I said if the price is set by supply and demand then any change in supply or demand for that matter will change the price however small that change is

 

[Highland Mule]

Is the gov's business run from their home

Don't be obtuse. Plenty of domestic costs get put through farm accounts and you know it. That same opportunity is not available to civil servants or most other company employees.

 

[farmerm]

maybe but I still stand by what I said if the price is set by supply and demand then any change in supply or demand for that matter will change the price however small that change is

Weather has an infinitely greater influence on supply and demand than the removal of BPS ever will. If you believe prices will rise to offset the loss of BPS you are going to be very disappointed

 

[Henarar]

Don't be obtuse. Plenty of domestic costs get put through farm accounts and you know it. That same opportunity is not available to civil servants or most other company employees.

Don't you try telling me what I know or don't know fecking obtuse or not

 

[Henarar]

Weather has an infinitely greater influence on supply and demand than the removal of BPS ever will. If you believe prices will rise to offset the loss of BPS you are going to be very disappointed

That depends if production falls, or is price not linked to supply?

 

[Henarar]

Don't be obtuse. Plenty of domestic costs get put through farm accounts and you know it. That same opportunity is not available to civil servants or most other company employees.

And I notice that you didn't answer the question

 

[manhill]

Don't be obtuse. Plenty of domestic costs get put through farm accounts and you know it. That same opportunity is not available to civil servants or most other company employees.

will be while they're working from home.

 

[farmerm]

That depends if production falls, or is price not linked to supply?

Any dip in UK production will have little to no bearing on global supplies and like you say, price is linked to supply...

 

[som farmer]

That depends if production falls, or is price not linked to supply?

1 stuck ship, in the suez canal, has caused a rise in oil price. The world relies on a system of 'just' in time deliveries, try going to your tractor dealer, and ask for a spare part, it's, it will be here tomorrow, or it's in germany, 48 hours delivery.
No one carries large stocks of anything any longer, the bean counters have worked it out, stock doesn't earn money, sat on shelves in dealers yards, s/mkts, computer reads sales, those sales are then sent to central depots, which then compute which shop needs what, robot sorted to lorry, then to store. It takes very little to upset that chain, snow, floods etc, multiply on a global scale, then breakdown, piracy in indian ocean, illness, terrorism, strikes, embargoes etc, all interfere with delivery times, delays cost money. Everything has been worked out to the n'th degree, all the slack has gone. It would take very little to disrupt those supply lines, then it definitely supply and demand prices. And that is the big problem for farmer, we are a long term industry, trying to cope in a short time world, the two don't mix well.