Extinction, the facts BBC.

[primmiemoo]

Best avoid even soymeal and soya hulls byproducts of soya, imv. Ask animal nutritionalists to think even harder, in order to reduce any demand for any sort of soya unless absolutely certified sustainable. More insect and grasses fed chicken, please, whilst we're on the subject.

It won't be easy, because more traditional byproducts are going into anaerobic digesters without first passing through a ruminant - which is a scandal in itself.

Pleased and relieved that the China complex was mentioned so many times. They didn't link the PRC with financing the highways that kill anteaters in the cerado, unfortunately.

Not quite enough about curbing demand for "stuff", even though it was mentioned.

I'm not certain we know enough about present cropping and stocking in Argentina, tbh. It is a politically unstable country - with Chinese funded highways ploughed through the pampas.

 

[delilah]

I may not have this right. But huge amounts fed in the country of production in feed lots to fatten cattleand other livestock for export. Mostly China but we get some too.

From the comments on here it would seem that most of the soya we feed in the Uk is a waste by-product ? If so then surely this is something the AHDB should be giving us all some clear, hard stats on, so that we can quote it to our customers ?

 

[Clive]

The mill that makes my pig food uses soya imported from Argentina. Having seen how it's produced in that country i'm very happy. They were practicing regenerative agriculture before we'd heard of it.
We also need that soya protein to make a balanced diet from all of the locally grown wheat that the diets are based on. Also, the protein component of many diets comes from rapeseed meal.

no matter how its produced shipping it half eay around the eorld is not regenerative

neither is chopping down rain forests to create the land

 

[Clive]

From the comments on here it would seem that most of the soya we feed in the Uk is a waste by-product ? If so then surely this is something the AHDB should be giving us all some clear, hard stats on, so that we can quote it to our customers ?

soya was being fed to uk stock before the word “vegan” existed

 

[Raider112]

I may not have this right. But huge amounts fed in the country of production in feed lots to fatten cattleand other livestock for export. Mostly China but we get some too.

As I understand it around 80% is fed to livestock and the rest for human use, but as I said earlier the 20% is the valuable part and the oil can't be fed to cattle as it makes them ill. Have I got this right?

 

[delilah]

soya was being fed to uk stock before the word “vegan” existed

As I understand it around 80% is fed to livestock and the rest for human use, but as I said earlier the 20% is the valuable part and the oil can't be fed to cattle as it makes them ill. Have I got this right?

still confused.com

 

[Clive]

still confused.com

as i understand it soya meal is fed to pigs, poultry, dairy and beef in the UK as one of their main protein sources ?

as we grow bugger all of it in the Uk this is mostly crossing the atlantic, often from south america where rain forest once grew

i susoect the qty consumed by a niche like vegans is tiny by comparison ?

 

[primmiemoo]

still confused.com

Soya oil extraction is very inefficient. 20% yield. The extraction process is not as environmentally sound as your average consumer would imagine, either, afaik.

 

[Suffolk Serf]

no matter how its produced shipping it half eay around the eorld is not regenerative

neither is chopping down rain forests to create the land

Most Argentine farmland was once Savannah grassland, now farmed in a good rotation, no tillage, and cattle well integrated. So not from destroyed rainforest, yes, shipped a long way but that's what happens when there are 60m people crammed on a small island.

 

[delilah]

as i understand it soya meal is fed to pigs, poultry, dairy and beef as one of their main protein sources ?

Soya oil extraction is very inefficient. 20% yield. The extraction process is not as environmentally sound as your average consumer would imagine, either, afaik.

Sure, accept that.
But the question is:
How much of this soya would be grown anyway, for the oil, to throw the meal away even if it wasn't fed to livestock ? And how much would be grown for the meal to feed to livestock, to throw the oil away, even if the oil had no use ?
That seems to be the crux of it ?

 

[Poorbuthappy]

as i understand it soya meal is fed to pigs, poultry, dairy and beef in the UK as one of their main protein sources ?

as we grow bugger all of it in the Uk this is mostly crossing the atlantic, often from south america where rain forest once grew

i susoect the qty consumed by a niche like vegans is tiny by comparison ?

Did you not read my post.
More soya is used for human consumption than animal feed in the UK

 

[primmiemoo]

as i understand it soya meal is fed to pigs, poultry, dairy and beef in the UK as one of their main protein sources ?

as we grow bugger all of it in the Uk this is mostly crossing the atlantic, often from south america where rain forest once grew

i susoect the qty consumed by a niche like vegans is tiny by comparison ?

Don't we all consume soya in processed food? It has been swapped into so many foodstuffs because it's so cheap. Multi-national food processing companies bump up their profit margins no end by using it.

It isn't that good for us, either. Messes up hormones, and definitely triggers genuine allergic reactions.

 

[Pilatus]

Is shipping soya from Brazil any different to shipping wood pellets from Louisiana to fuel Drax power station???

 

[Raider112]

as i understand it soya meal is fed to pigs, poultry, dairy and beef in the UK as one of their main protein sources ?

as we grow bugger all of it in the Uk this is mostly crossing the atlantic, often from south america where rain forest once grew

i susoect the qty consumed by a niche like vegans is tiny by comparison ?

So do you disagree that the meal is the byproduct after the oil is removed?
I think rain forest is cleared more for cattle than Soya, which as suggested above is grown more on former grasslands.
Soya is in hundreds of things, it's not just vegan food.
These are my impressions and we really need proper facts verified by the proper bodies as it's too good an argument to ignore.

 

[primmiemoo]

Sure, accept that.
But the question is:
How much of this soya would be grown anyway, for the oil, to throw the meal away even if it wasn't fed to livestock ? And how much would be grown for the meal to feed to livestock, to throw the oil away, even if the oil had no use ?
That seems to be the crux of it ?

Spot on.

We're all exposed to soya oil in our diets because it's cheaper than alternatives. Multinational processed food manufacturers bump up profit margins from it.

We have yet to touch upon "roundup ready" or the other proprietary herbicides used for GM soya.

 

[delilah]

Spot on.

Then I would expect the AHDB to give us the answer. It's what we pay them for.

 

[Barleycorn]

I just watched it, and was expecting the usual BBC / Guardian pro-vegan bias, but was fairly pleasantly surprised. Ethically produced meat was suggested, but a shame they never discussed regenerative farming. I was arguing with a vegan type today in the pub and asked how eating a sheep fed on a mountain slope eating grass that would otherwise turn to brambles was not ethical and sustainable. Got the usual murder blah blah!

 

[Hampton]

a lot of uk livestock is fed imported soya

I thought it was a good documentary- fact is if we carry on as we are doing this planet is toast. We can see these effects now, westher extremes and pandemics - nature is fighting back !

we don’t want to face it but our production of food is damaging, we should stop fighting criticism and see it as opportunity to find and provide solitions to this massive problem that oir customers want a solution to

Was working out my soya usage in cattle ration (growing more beans now, so it will drop in future) and it has been working out at about 2.5% of the ration.
will certainly reduce that this year, but it wasn’t exactly a high amount to start with.
Also worth remembering that the soya I was feeding was a by product, not the main aim.

 

[delilah]

I just watched it, and was expecting the usual BBC / Guardian pro-vegan bias, but was fairly pleasantly surprised. Ethically produced meat was suggested, but a shame they never discussed regenerative farming. I was arguing with a vegan type today in the pub and asked how eating a sheep fed on a mountain slope eating grass that would otherwise turn to brambles was not ethical and sustainable. Got the usual murder blah blah!

We have a 'farm club' for teenagers. Whenever one of them expresses concern over killing the stock, I set them homework: Go and do some research in to how many living beings have to die to produce a vegan meal, compared to one lamb.

 

[Swarfmonkey]

@delilah

320mn tons of soya harvested globally last year. 52mn tons of soybean oil produced (SOPA figures).

Quick maths using the 20% oil content mentioned earlier and I’ve come up with a figure of 260mn tons grown just to produce the oil, leaving 208mn tons of byproduct.