Farm building, change of use

[tim@marford]

Surprisingly, a search turned up nothing recent!

Along with a lot of other folk, I have a few buildings in storage/light industrial use without benefit of town planning.

This has been spotted:-(

Now for the knowledgeable.. is it better to use *more than ten years established use* or simply apply for the change?
I am aware of insulation issues but wonder if the rating dept. would use a 10 year use claim to backdate unclaimed rates?

 

[George from SJM Planning]

If you can prove the 10 years then applying for a CLUED is the easiest way to make the use lawful. In terms of evidence sworn Statutory Declarations from persons who have known the use to have been going on for at least 10 years is the best. To supplement this I would usually include dated photographs of the used and any bills or statements relating to the use full stop you need to prove a continuous 10 years so a good stream of evidence is required.

If you cannot prove the 10-years then your only option is a retrospective planning application and you would be expected to demonstrate that the use would not cause any detrimental harm to the area, highways and other inhabitants full stop this is also a much more expensive route.

 

[tim@marford]

If you can prove the 10 years then applying for a CLUED is the easiest way to make the use lawful. In terms of evidence sworn Statutory Declarations from persons who have known the use to have been going on for at least 10 years is the best. To supplement this I would usually include dated photographs of the used and any bills or statements relating to the use full stop you need to prove a continuous 10 years so a good stream of evidence is required.

If you cannot prove the 10-years then your only option is a retrospective planning application and you would be expected to demonstrate that the use would not cause any detrimental harm to the area, highways and other inhabitants full stop this is also a much more expensive route.

Proving 10 years is easy. Invoices, sworn witnesses etc. my worry is that a current rating valuation might come in above the current fully relieved value, leading to an opportunity for the charge to be backdated.

Sadly there is no provision in the current agreement for settling due rates:-(

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Proving 10 years is easy. Invoices, sworn witnesses etc. my worry is that a current rating valuation might come in above the current fully relieved value, leading to an opportunity for the charge to be backdated.

Sadly there is no provision in the current agreement for settling due rates:-(

Business Rates is something I don't get involved with, can only advise on the Planning side of things.

 

[teslacoils]

Proving 10 years is easy. Invoices, sworn witnesses etc. my worry is that a current rating valuation might come in above the current fully relieved value, leading to an opportunity for the charge to be backdated.

Sadly there is no provision in the current agreement for settling due rates:-(

Tbh, if you've been caught, then they are hardly likely to be inclined to leniency. 6 years backdating is the maximum. May be best doing the easy planning; accepting the rates will be backdated and trying to keep them low; and carry on using it as is.

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Who have you been caught by? The VOA or Planning Enforcement?

 

[tim@marford]

Tbh, if you've been caught, then they are hardly likely to be inclined to leniency. 6 years backdating is the maximum. May be best doing the easy planning; accepting the rates will be backdated and trying to keep them low; and carry on using it as is.

OK George. 6 years max. is worth knowing.

 

[tim@marford]

Who have you been caught by? The VOA or Planning Enforcement?

Planning enforcement!
I am busy putting a 12.5 deg. single slope roof on what was previously a very leaky less than 5. Puts about 1.2m on the overall height and this is metropolitan greenbelt with visibility from the village.

The building she assumed was no longer agricultural does have a consent for light industrial and is rated. However there are several others in unofficial use:-(

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Planning enforcement!
I am busy putting a 12.5 deg. single slope roof on what was previously a very leaky less than 5. Puts about 1.2m on the overall height and this is metropolitan greenbelt with visibility from the village.

The building she assumed was no longer agricultural does have a consent for light industrial and is rated. However there are several others in unofficial use:-(

Have you just been informed they are considering enforcement or have you been given a 28 day notice? Now Enforcement are involved it's best to get it rectified ASAP. They aren't shy of taking legal action.

 

[tim@marford]

Have you just been informed they are considering enforcement or have you been given a 28 day notice? Now Enforcement are involved it's best to get it rectified ASAP. They aren't shy of taking legal action.

28 day notice!
It took some days to reach me because it was sent to a previous postal address (land registry records).
So far, I have only responded to correct their contact details and point out the land remains in agricultural use. Requested contact by telephone has not succeeded as I suspect the officer concerned is working from home.
Long overdue for the unconsented operations to be notified (storage and further light industrial activity) but I have been concerned about back charging of rates.

 

[George from SJM Planning]

So as I see it you have 3 options:

1. Cease the use and return the buildings to agricultural use;
2. Apply for a CLUED for 10 years use and run the risk of the VOA and Council seeing rates from previous years;
3. Apply for retrospective planning permission citing a shorter period of unlawful use but accept the higher costs of the application including third party consultants with no assurance it will be approved.

 

[tim@marford]

So as I see it you have 3 options:

1. Cease the use and return the buildings to agricultural use;
2. Apply for a CLUED for 10 years use and run the risk of the VOA and Council seeing rates from previous years;
3. Apply for retrospective planning permission citing a shorter period of unlawful use but accept the higher costs of the application including third party consultants with no assurance it will be approved.

Indeed.
The 6 year limit is reassuring and back charging may not be picked up by the council anyway. Only one building is at risk of exceeding the fully rebated limit. The use is glass storage which may not attract a huge valuation.
My plan is to seek council from local Architects about the re-roofing issue and to submit CLUED applications for the non agricultural uses. Meanwhile, finish the roof job so it looks tidy

Thanks for your very helpful input.

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Indeed.
The 6 year limit is reassuring and back charging may not be picked up by the council anyway. Only one building is at risk of exceeding the fully rebated limit. The use is glass storage which may not attract a huge valuation.
My plan is to seek council from local Architects about the re-roofing issue and to submit CLUED applications for the non agricultural uses. Meanwhile, finish the roof job so it looks tidy

Thanks for your very helpful input.

Do you need an architect just for a re-roofing design? The roofing company or a local Draughtsperson would be far cheaper.

 

[tim@marford]

Do you need an architect just for a re-roofing design? The roofing company or a local Draughtsperson would be far cheaper.

No. Just a brainpick on the best way to justify the changes. (the roof slopes South and there are no shading trees, allowing maximum output from proposed solar panels. The building has a 60 amp 3 phase supply allowing high performance charging for visiting electric cars etc.

 

[George from SJM Planning]

No. Just a brainpick on the best way to justify the changes. (the roof slopes South and there are no shading trees, allowing maximum output from proposed solar panels. The building has a 60 amp 3 phase supply allowing high performance charging for visiting electric cars etc.

Would a Planning Consultant be better placed to do this especially if it is to satisfy enforcement and planning?

 

[Steevo]

Indeed.
The 6 year limit is reassuring and back charging may not be picked up by the council anyway. Only one building is at risk of exceeding the fully rebated limit. The use is glass storage which may not attract a huge valuation.
My plan is to seek council from local Architects about the re-roofing issue and to submit CLUED applications for the non agricultural uses. Meanwhile, finish the roof job so it looks tidy

Thanks for your very helpful input.

The actual use isn’t used for business rates valuation…..but the potential use based on the building itself. I.e caravan storage (low value) in a brand new high quality shed would attract higher rates than storing gold bullion in an old milking parlour.

 

[tim@marford]

Would a Planning Consultant be better placed to do this especially if it is to satisfy enforcement and planning?

Probably. Tends to attract closer attention than an amateur effort from some local farmer though. I'll see what Monday brings.

 

[tim@marford]

The actual use isn’t used for business rates valuation…..but the potential use based on the building itself. I.e caravan storage (low value) in a brand new high quality shed would attract higher rates than storing gold bullion in an old milking parlour.

OK. Good point. Block walls and secure but uninsulated and not totally weatherproof. Upside is highway access and yard space for deliveries.
What happens to such units in 2025 with the thermal regulations?

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Probably. Tends to attract closer attention than an amateur effort from some local farmer though. I'll see what Monday brings.

I would argue that with the requirements for validation that an amateur effort from a farmer would be returned by the planning validation team before it made it to a case officer.
A CLUED needs a large body of evidence and a well written statement as well as the prerequisite forms and plans.

 

[Pennine Ploughing]

The actual use isn’t used for business rates valuation…..but the potential use based on the building itself. I.e caravan storage (low value) in a brand new high quality shed would attract higher rates than storing gold bullion in an old milking parlour.

Where is this milking parlour, asking for a friend