Farm safety

[Bongodog]

1 point to remember, Loler states that if equipment is used to lift a person the inspection period is every 6 months, not every 12 months, so if you have a man cage for the telehandler its every 6 months for both the cage and the handler in case you ever need to use it.
Some of the stuff I'm reading here just shows where the problems are "I have been looking for a cherrypicker to buy" So you buy a fairly elderly cherrypicker, which them needs six monthly checks, or maybe you don't worry about such things, and you trust your life with it, or you hire a nice nearly new one for £250 a week when you need it.
The number of incidents that involve people getting caught up/trapped by machinery due either not turning the key off or not pulling the brake on. None of these cost any money at all, yet still they happen.
N I and its slurry gas problems, don't we all know that gases and confined spaces are a big no ?

 

[Andrew]

1 point to remember, Loler states that if equipment is used to lift a person the inspection period is every 6 months, not every 12 months, so if you have a man cage for the telehandler its every 6 months for both the cage and the handler in case you ever need to use it.

Does it have to remain in test though if it’s not in use? HGVs have to have regular maintenance inspections, but if declared out of use, the inspections can be suspended as long as they are inspected before next use?

You would think it would be the same for LOLER?

 

[roscoe erf]

There was one not far from here left the handbrake off while he opened a gate, vehicle rolled over him.

But if you read the report, very few fatalities are due to people doing time / weather limited things. Those that were, a safe stop doesn’t take much longer surely?

its got sweet f.a to do with if it takes longer doing it as you put it correctly when you as a human being are in a rush thinking about the next job or the job you've just done forgetting to put the handbrake on sh!t happens and it will continue to happen weather you've a budget of a small country to spend on safety or bugger all and please stop insulting those that have accidents because they haven't spent a small fortune of fancy safety stickers or sat in a classroom to be ticketed into how to wipe their arse by making the statement if you cant afford to operate safely then work for someone else .

 

[Andrew]

please stop insulting those that have accidents because they haven't spent a small fortune of fancy safety stickers or sat in a classroom to be ticketed into how to wipe their arse by making the statement if you cant afford to operate safely then work for someone else .

No offence intended. My point is purely that health and safety is not related to profitability.
Let me word it differently, would you consider killing someone if it increased your profit margin, because that’s basically what you’re risking?

You’re a HGV operator yes?
You operate safely and within the law, yes?
To be on a level playing field with some operators you would run at 70mph with no tacho and 2 flat tyres, but I bet you don’t, even though you make less profit?

 

[7610 super q]

1 point to remember, Loler states that if equipment is used to lift a person the inspection period is every 6 months, not every 12 months, so if you have a man cage for the telehandler its every 6 months for both the cage and the handler in case you ever need to use it.
Some of the stuff I'm reading here just shows where the problems are "I have been looking for a cherrypicker to buy" So you buy a fairly elderly cherrypicker, which them needs six monthly checks, or maybe you don't worry about such things, and you trust your life with it, or you hire a nice nearly new one for £250 a week when you need it.
The number of incidents that involve people getting caught up/trapped by machinery due either not turning the key off or not pulling the brake on. None of these cost any money at all, yet still they happen.
N I and its slurry gas problems, don't we all know that gases and confined spaces are a big no ?

You clearly didn't read all my post. Locally you've got a choice between a small unsuitable trailed cherry picker from MPH hire, or a bloke hiring one on FB who doesn't answer messages.
It must be nice living in a perfect world where everything you could possibly want is available within a 10 mile radius, when you want it.
Anyhoo I'm oooot. These threads always end up with self righteous point scoring smartarses. Every single idea about why accidents happen on this thread so far has been pooh-poohed.

 

[delilah]

I want genuine ideas.

What's the plan ? There's several positive suggestions been made. Will you be sending them to HSE/ NFU etc for their consideration ? Would be good to see something constructive come out of this at times harrowing thread.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

I think one of the big issues as listed in the statistics is 3 children and 9 over 65. It is an issue not seen in many other industries as kids and people of an older age are not in contact with animals, machines etc

I am not sure how we solve it but the combination of house and work place is not a good thing

If a farm was a large building site, there is no way they would allow a house to be in the middle of the operation, and no one would be allowed onto site without undergoing a full safety induction, how this squares with footpaths running through the middle of farm yards and land I don't know!

I also always believe "common sense" is not something we are born with, but is built up from knowledge and experience, therefore younger people can not be expected to have that bank of experience or knowledge.

Working with stock can be dangerous, especially if you are older and have less quick reaction times, I wonder how many older workers are killed by stock?

I guess other industries don't have the number of older workers farms do either.

 

[Robt]

What's the plan ? There's several positive suggestions been made. Will you be sending them to HSE/ NFU etc for their consideration ? Would be good to see something constructive come out of this at times harrowing thread.

Its more a discussion to help understand why the negativity to H&S. I sit on a council of Machinery manufactures so we try our best to promote safe practice. Sadly i think the only way to improve it is to enforce the rules more?

 

[ollie989898]

I don't see the issue with having the young taught professionally about HSE matters when they pass through college, it should be routine and mandatory as part of their training.

Having machines which are serviceable and safe, come on now. This isn't 1965 now. The 1970's prices thing is old hat as well.

 

[Andrew]

Working with stock can be dangerous, especially if you are older and have less quick reaction times, I wonder how many older workers are killed by stock?

In the summary posted earlier, 50% of farm deaths in over 65s were caused by cattle.

Its more a discussion to help understand why the negativity to H&S. I sit on a council of Machinery manufactures so we try our best to promote safe practice. Sadly i think the only way to improve it is to enforce the rules more?

1) Shepherd animals from vehicles rather than parking at the gate and walking?

2) Childproof fence around the house, direct supervision of children when outside this fence

3) Make it easier to divert footpaths around fields / yards so the public are outside a fence rather than in with stock

 

[delilah]

Sadly i think the only way to improve it is to enforce the rules more?

Are they stretched staff wise ? We've been trading over 10 years and not had a visit. Do you have to have an incident first ?

 

[John Slejpner]

So reading that there a few things that could be looked. Age (both young and old), working from heights , ATV and footpaths/bridleways (neither of these have a place in farm yards in this day an age)

Getting a footpath / bridleway moved from the middle of the farmyard to skirting around the outside of the farmyard took 4 painstaking years....partly because of staff turnover in County Council, partly because the Ramblers oppose all such moves on principal.
User safety was the overwhelming reason for move being requested.
Cost 4k.

No LEDER grants etc for this one.

But i can get a grant for new gutters on a traditional brick farm building, for...oh don't get me started.

 

[JeepJeep]

sh!t happens all the time and always will. It's why sh!t happens we need to try and learn from.

I've done the forgot the handbrake thing when dealing with 100 things at once at 1 AM... 100K Bus off skis down the yard into another one just missing a brand spanking new Volvo Coach next to it.

It didn't happen again.

Also did the drive off with the pump stick in the filler... The company had bought a cheap 40K Litre tank and pump set up with no rip off on it. Too many things going on.... Too many tails of woe and broken vehciles going on jump in off to go. Demolished the pipework made the hose about 10x longer and lost about 1000 litres of Diesel. Few Fire Engines involved as it looked worse than it was. Boss wasn't interested and said ring em in case it heads to the river at the bottom of yard...

The same bunch of clowns found themselves on the wrong side of Loler after 14 Examinations were overdue and still overdue after an extension.

Some people won't change Some try and learn and do learn but sh!t will always happen.

 

[sahara]

I sit on a council of Machinery manufactures so we try our best to promote safe practice.

Commonality between manufacturers on safety critical items e.g pto's and their guards would be good.
Keep a lid on the price of things like pto stuff to help and encourage us to change damaged safety guards etc
Better design at the start seems to me to be the best way forward. A dealer mechanic was showing me how the design of a baler meant that any new guard on its wide angle pto was damaged in minutes, landing its owner with the dilemma of "do I replace it again of not?"

 

[Highland Mule]

Its more a discussion to help understand why the negativity to H&S. I sit on a council of Machinery manufactures so we try our best to promote safe practice. Sadly i think the only way to improve it is to enforce the rules more?

Nope. Design better equipment. I think I'm right in saying that the manufacturers will do their own Machinery Directive assessments and CE markings, except they probaby don't and instead contract that out to a consultant who doesn't know how the equipment is operated in the real world. Find that out and get the designs right. How many times do folks come on here and say that the telehandler cutout is dangerous? That can be fixed with proper engineering, not with nanny systems that introduce real world hazards. PTO shafts that need three arms and a dislocated shoulder to lubricate? Chains that can only be tightened whilst the machine is running, or at least are much easier when it is?- there is no need for that at all. Equipment that you can't safely operate whilst driving because you need to have eyes in the back of your head - sort it out. Anything that costs more than a few £k and/or has more than three moving parts should be reviewed by an industrial ergonomics expert - a proper one too, not just a person with a degree in human factors. And all assessments for CE marking should be done by a safety consultant who knows how to operate the machine, not one who spends all day sitting at a desk in another country (it happens, I know). That's a good start that the manufacturers can do right now.

Have a look at my post https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/farm-safety.321121/post-7006402 and the quite correct challenge I got for it. Then look here https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/farm-engineering.108414/post-6977130. We've seen in this thread that frustration comes from getting on and off tractors to make small adjustments when hitching stuff on and off, and this simple trolley removes that instantly. So petition all 3pl equipment manufacturers to make and sell a frame like this at cost, for each piece of equipment they have. Let's be honest a graduate mechanical engineer could CAD that up in a day or two and the workshops would take no time at all to run them through. That would be a major help for many, I'd argue.

There's two constructive suggestions for your next council meeting. I'm sure that we can collectively come up with more, if there's any indication they would be received positively.

 

[50ShedsofHay]

When in Montana.

 

[kiwi pom]

HSE need to start doing their job better clearly

I have never had a visit from them in all my years farming - we operate very strict safety so not a problem but they don’t know this

Quite frankly they should be shutting a lot of farms down until they sort their act out - the stats are clear that too many are happy to operate dangerous business

If you think RT nit pick, I await your thread on a HSE inspection with interest.
If you're not killing or injuring your staff and staying within the law, you're doing fine and would be better with them staying away.
The stats posted on here only show deaths, I haven't looked up serious injuries but most deaths seem to be farmers killing themselves because they either don't know how to look after themselves or think everything else is more important. No amount of visits will change that.

Interestingly TFF members accused of being on their high horse when it comes to safety, seem to be the ones that employ staff, they have a good attitude when it comes to keeping people safe and it seems to be working.
The ones being critical seem to be 'one man bands' how do you help them?

It must be a little annoying for people like yourself to spend so much time and money on safety just to see you competitors completely ignoring it though.

 

[Clive]

If you think RT nit pick, I await your thread on a HSE inspection with interest.
If you're not killing or injuring your staff and staying within the law, you're doing fine and would be better with them staying away.
The stats posted on here only show deaths, I haven't looked up serious injuries but most deaths seem to be farmers killing themselves because they either don't know how to look after themselves or think everything else is more important. No amount of visits will change that.

Interestingly TFF members accused of being on their high horse when it comes to safety, seem to be the ones that employ staff, they have a good attitude when it comes to keeping people safe and it seems to be working.
The ones being critical seem to be 'one man bands' how do you help them?

It must be a little annoying for people like yourself to spend so much time and money on safety just to see you competitors completely ignoring it though.

HSE has a useful purpose - it can save lives

RT however ........ !

 

[Drillman]

I’m going to ask a question ? As anyone been injured in a Farm accident writing on here at the moment just curious.

Yes. Got mauled by a freshly calved cow while trying to get another cow out the yard to give it a hand as struggling to calve

got a ambulance ride to the X ray machine with suspected broken neck. Fortunately is was nothing more than severe whiplash. Pain killers for the next 6 weeks.

yes we do have half decent handling set ups for cattle but still have to get the buggers out the yard first.

 

[kiwi pom]

HSE has a useful purpose - it can save lives

RT however ........ !

I know which one I'd prefer though.


Having said that the few actual safety inspectors/investigators I've met have been quite sensible. Its company H&S managers or private consultants that go way over and above what is actually necessary. With them its all about justifying their jobs or selling a product.