France to link food prices to farmers’ cost of production!!!

[milkloss]

http://news.sky.com/story/i-cant-be...r-french-dairy-crisis-starts-to-bite-11096986

Macron hasn’t quite resolved things, well not just yet

I take it the French don't import butter then?

If the farmers have engineered this 'crisis' then good for them.

 

[brigadoon]

are you going to finish that sentence?
britain starved in 1817,
1873, 1916-1918, and 1939 -50.
1817 was weather related, and also 1882 which would have led to hunger if the american wheat was not available.
rest were all due to war.
If not for rationing, people would have died.

I did finish the sentence but struggling badly with internet connection no idea why it should have been cut short though.

As others have already pointed out the UK did not starve in the two war periods that you specify. There were food shortages for sure but there are contentions that the diet of the labouring classes actually improved under rationing.

I am not sure that there actually was any rationing in the first war but happy to be corrected.

In actual fact the government of the day responded to the situation as it presently was - which is by

thats not for you to decide, the tax payer is gaining more than theyre losing through farmers being subsidised so its win win

Definitely not for me to decide but I am entitled to an opinion. As for subsidies being cost efficient I would really really like to see a logical justification for your contention

 

[brigadoon]

Completely dillusional are 60m people supposed to put their future on the guesses youve just made? We wont be able to import any food if there is a global shortage there would be export bans, so your saying food supplies wont be targeted or contaminated in a war? food will readily ship in and out? Can you guarantee this?

Maybe you could explain to us who is going to try to blockade the UK and how they will enforce such a blockade. You may also wish to consider how energy supplies will be affected in the situation you describe .

6 suitable missiles would possibly suffice to negate the entire refining capacity of the UK - which would result in a sudden demand for horses so maybe we should have a subsidy for keeping them?

 

[brigadoon]

What rubbish
Nobody is saying dont import rice or sushi,or pineapples, just maintain our ability to feed ourselves.
Nobody foresaw world war one or two, but they still happened.
A far greater threat is from climate change i think than war.
A big volcanic eruption like tambora could happen tomorrow, and planes carrying food cant fly in ash

Many people clearly foresaw both wars and you can ground every cargo plane tomorrow without affecting food transport one iota - planes do not transport food

 

[brigadoon]

we only have a few months supply here in the UK and it would take near a year to get all the farmers started back up/equipment distributed/labour in place/ground planted/harvested/processed/distributed NOBODY on here can undermine food security because you simply DO NOT KNOW what is round the corner so why take a massive risk with the lives and safety(any food left in shops priced sky high, massive queing, theft fighting etc) of UK citizens just because you cant be bothered to support your own food producers???????????

Did you ever hear of rationing?

 

[brigadoon]

its not just ploughs needed, skilled labour/drills/sprayers/fert spreaders/drainage/combines/grain dryers/forklifts/tractors/sheds/livestock/markets/silage equipment/vets/med/fert/sprays our whole supply chain is needed to operate

You forgot the horses mate

 

[glasshouse]

Many people clearly foresaw both wars and you can ground every cargo plane tomorrow without affecting food transport one iota - planes do not transport food[/QUOTE



LOL, who foresaw both wars? Nobody in power did, thats for sure.
"It will all be over by xmas"
Remember that?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Maybe you could explain to us who is going to try to blockade the UK and how they will enforce such a blockade. You may also wish to consider how energy supplies will be affected in the situation you describe .

6 suitable missiles would possibly suffice to negate the entire refining capacity of the UK - which would result in a sudden demand for horses so maybe we should have a subsidy for keeping them?

They'd need to be good strong horses to pull a plough these days - have you seen the newest debate that a 18 ton tractor weighs less on bigger tyres

But, there's a good point, in the new age of terrorism, attacks on public arenas refineries and similar targets poses a far greater threat to the public than being unable to fly fresh grapes in from France... an exceptionally good outlook for horsey types really. I don't see why all the aggro.

Also, anyone with a garden or a hothouse needs to be included in the list of grants, because they're also actively growing food for this next war.
4 wheel drive owners, just sit tight for now, but I'm sure there'll be reasonable grounds for some type of payment in case of emergency.

Don't get me started on caravans and where they could be deployed - but they would make excellent roadblocks to thwart jolly old Jerry marching into Piccadilly..

 

[Bossfarmer]

I did finish the sentence but struggling badly with internet connection no idea why it should have been cut short though.

As others have already pointed out the UK did not starve in the two war periods that you specify. There were food shortages for sure but there are contentions that the diet of the labouring classes actually improved under rationing.

I am not sure that there actually was any rationing in the first war but happy to be corrected.

In actual fact the government of the day responded to the situation as it presently was - which is by

Definitely not for me to decide but I am entitled to an opinion. As for subsidies being cost efficient I would really really like to see a logical justification for your contention

£7.40 returned to the economy for every £1 farmers recieve in subs, if you include all the employment right down the spply chain NFU researched it

 

[Bossfarmer]

Maybe you could explain to us who is going to try to blockade the UK and how they will enforce such a blockade. You may also wish to consider how energy supplies will be affected in the situation you describe .

6 suitable missiles would possibly suffice to negate the entire refining capacity of the UK - which would result in a sudden demand for horses so maybe we should have a subsidy for keeping them?

before we even consider war we had to stop all flights and movements from certain areas when the Ebola outbreak happened, other threats such as swine flu or any infections threat we are yet to encounter could easily see us isolated tell me would it be WISE to risk 60m peoples food supply just to save a few billion(nothing to the gov) which actually generates over 7 times the outlay anyway??

 

[brigadoon]

£7.40 returned to the economy for every £1 farmers recieve in subs, if you include all the employment right down the spply chain NFU researched it

We had an entire thread on that document a while back. It's a load of old tosh which will not stand even the most cursory scrutiny

 

[Bossfarmer]

We had an entire thread on that document a while back. It's a load of old tosh which will not stand even the most cursory scrutiny

its hard facts im afraid cut the 3bn to AG and jobs/businesses will be lost right down the chain not just the farmers

 

[Muck Spreader]

I take it the French don't import butter then?

If the farmers have engineered this 'crisis' then good for them.

I think French producers are shipping butter to other counties were they can get a better price at the moment.

 

[bobk]

I think French producers are shipping butter to other counties were they can get a better price at the moment.

Yes , no shortage of french butter here .

 

[Dead Rabbits]

you are very much mistaken we have a massively populated island and only enough food to last us a few months in any time of a global shortage/war you will have supermarket shelves run bare VERY quickly and mass panic buying it will be like people queing at the pumps when the fuel shortage was announced a few years back

Good thing none of your inputs are imported.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Won't be much traffic on here today @Dead Rabbits
Folk will be out buying tins of glyphosate.
All proudly locally made, of course.. as you wryly note..

 

[Dead Rabbits]

Won't be much traffic on here today @Dead Rabbits
Folk will be out buying tins of glyphosate.
All proudly locally made, of course.. as you wryly note..

Ha! I think as you pointed out, everyone will need a horse. Cause if you can't import food you sure can't import petroleum products. How's the U.K. Oil industry doing these days?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Ha! I think as you pointed out, everyone will need a horse. Cause if you can't import food you sure can't import petroleum products. How's the U.K. Oil industry doing these days?

It's more than keeping up with British made tractors, or so I heard.
(tend not to look past the end of my next sentence if at all possible)

 

[Dave645]

In no way different to any other business. Sorry but there is no reason why the population of the UK should pay farmers to play with a farm set which is what you seem to propose.

While in an ideal world I would agree, we don't live in that, nearly all farmers in Europe and the USA get sub in one form or another, world markets are excesses being dumped, because farming is poorly managed, I say poorly it's more maintained in a state of over supply.

I would ask you to do some basic maths and research, for the uk farmers.
A few facts in the uk we farm around 17.2 million HA of land about 36% is arable the rest grass or ruff grazing.
The average price of land is £8900/ acre which is down 10% from last year, more info can be found hear.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agriculture_in_the_United_Kingdom
Do some maths like I said what return on investment do farmers get,
Add the value of their holdings don't forget machinery, buildings, live stock, and crops. now you know what they have invested now divide total income by the number of employed people in farmer work out the % return on investment......and average wage.

Farming is not an investable industry it's not actualy a business that even remotely stands up as one and this is Euro wide and nearly world wide, food is just too cheap, for it to be remotely subs free and sustainable, I wish it was in the uk but it's not.

When you see that no new farms can be started because the numbers don't allow it by that I mean if I had the money to buy my farm it would earn me more just in the bank earning minimal interest. Than it actual earns me.
You then see why keeping the ones we have going is so important.
Once we stop there will be little that could restart the industry in the uk.

 

[digger64]

While in an ideal world I would agree, we don't live in that, nearly all farmers in Europe and the USA get sub in one form or another, world markets are excesses being dumped, because farming is poorly managed, I say poorly it's more maintained in a state of over supply.

I would ask you to do some basic maths and research, for the uk farmers.
A few facts in the uk we farm around 17.2 million HA of land about 36% is arable the rest grass or ruff grazing.
The average price of land is £8900/ acre which is down 10% from last year, more info can be found hear.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agriculture_in_the_United_Kingdom
Do some maths like I said what return on investment do farmers get,
Add the value of their holdings don't forget machinery, buildings, live stock, and crops. now you know what they have invested now divide total income by the number of employed people in farmer work out the % return on investment......and average wage.

Farming is not an investable industry it's not actualy a business that even remotely stands up as one and this is Euro wide and nearly world wide, food is just too cheap, for it to be remotely subs free and sustainable, I wish it was in the uk but it's not.

When you see that no new farms can be started because the numbers don't allow it by that I mean if I had the money to buy my farm it would earn me more just in the bank earning minimal interest. Than it actual earns me.
You then see why keeping the ones we have going is so important.
Once we stop there will be little that could restart the industry in the uk.

Thats rubbish of course they could start just with a different set of parameters to today , have you no imagination ?