Front wheel hubs breaking

[Courier]

When wheel nuts /studs don’t incorporate a taper then these are what are used to locate within the countersunk holes in the rim - the weight and the rotational forces are taken on the taper and need to be subject to high tension in the threaded portion of the wheel bolt / stud.
Under no circumstances is friction a factor.

 

[betweenthelines]

If the studs have ever been over torqued they should be replaced as the threads will have been stretched. That means they will work loose easily and a wobbly wheel (even if the wobble is invisible to the naked eye) will affect the hub.

Lateral, not vertical, movement is the problem.

 

[jamie]

Do we know what the tractor is yet?

@balerman and @kill have guessed it.

 

[ridger]

Need at least a ton counterweight on lift arms for a loader, I'd use a 2 ton one if I could get it. Another minute I have a 1.25 ton one, its the biggest available locally

 

[Cowabunga]

Need at least a ton counterweight on lift arms for a loader, I'd use a 2 ton one if I could get it. Another minute I have a 1.25 ton one, its the biggest available locally

You need approximately the same weight as a counterweight as the maximum lift capacity of the loader as a minimum. This takes no account of the extra loads imposed, which will be substantial, such as tear out force and shock loads when a load bounces the boom. A boom suspension system helps of course and I replaced both accumulators on my loader two years ago as they had lost the spring after being on the tractor for 9000 hours. I do have a 2 ton plus counterweight and had zero front axle wear issues apart from the non-bushed inner steering ram anchor bolts wearing bigger holes in the axle. It’s a NH 8360 which is a TM155 equivalent with the large, heavy duty front axle.
It did wear the threads out on both rear lower link lift rods though, about three years ago. It’s having its 25th birthday this March [2022] and is just about to cross 10,000 hours.

 

[Fendtbro]

You need approximately the same weight as a counterweight as the maximum lift capacity of the loader as a minimum. This takes no account of the extra loads imposed, which will be substantial, such as tear out force and shock loads when a load bounces the boom. A boom suspension system helps of course and I replaced both accumulators on my loader two years ago as they had lost the spring after being on the tractor for 9000 hours. I do have a 2 ton plus counterweight and had zero front axle wear issues apart from the non-bushed inner steering ram anchor bolts wearing bigger holes in the axle. It’s a NH 8360 which is a TM155 equivalent with the large, heavy duty front axle.
It did wear the threads out on both rear lower link lift rods though, about three years ago. It’s having its 25th birthday this March [2022] and is just about to cross 10,000 hours.

Counterweight is a nice idea in theory, but in practice I have a balespike on the rear for 6 months winter feeding or a trailer. Really a tractor should have a front axle that is rated to above what the loader can lift and that's the end of it.. In my opinion tractor design is not keeping up with the jobs expected of them, the fendt here has a 70/30 weight split and is completely stable with full size matbro attachments. The manufacturers keep tweaking the gray fergy design to try and gain an edge but in reality a complete rethink is needed in the chassis layout.

 

[Cowabunga]

Counterweight is a nice idea in theory, but in practice I have a balespike on the rear for 6 months winter feeding or a trailer. Really a tractor should have a front axle that is rated to above what the loader can lift and that's the end of it.. In my opinion tractor design is not keeping up with the jobs expected of them, the fendt here has a 70/30 weight split and is completely stable with full size matbro attachments. The manufacturers keep tweaking the gray fergy design to try and gain an edge but in reality a complete rethink is needed in the chassis layout.

The issue, in my opinion, is that people expect too much of machines they have bought on price initially or on some misconceived idea that loader work is for small light tractors.
My loader is on a 144 PTO hp tractor with a heavy duty front axle and was bought specifically for loader work. Although it has the 2 ton counterweight on most of the time, it works without it perfectly well when trailering loads from one farmyard to the other. It is sufficient and the unit is tall enough to easily load over trailer silage sides.

Another point is not to put implements on the front that are oversized for the rest of the unit. For the bulk of its work a five foot silage sheargrab that holds about a ton is on mine. That’s no more than 1.5 tons counting the grab, on a loader capable of lifting nearly twice that.

 

[Exfarmer]

The issue, in my opinion, is that people expect too much of machines they have bought on price initially or on some misconceived idea that loader work is for small light tractors.
My loader is on a 144 PTO hp tractor with a heavy duty front axle and was bought specifically for loader work. Although it has the 2 ton counterweight on most of the time, it works without it perfectly well when trailering loads from one farmyard to the other. It is sufficient and the unit is tall enough to easily load over trailer silage sides.

Another point is not to put implements on the front that are oversized for the rest of the unit. For the bulk of its work a five foot silage sheargrab that holds about a ton is on mine. That’s no more than 1.5 tons counting the grab, on a loader capable of lifting nearly twice that.

I would suggest that the dealer has most certainly sold a machine which is obviously not fit for the purpose it was sold for.
I know nothing of the Formal range or what5 that tractor replaced but one guesses that the dealer swapped the loaders over and must have some responsibility for this machine.
I would not say that the the fault is strictly limited to the dealer as Case must have responsibility for dealer and rep training etc. However the law is that it is the dealer who is responsible for ensuring the product will do the job.
If the previous tractor was up to it the OP bought the tractor in good faith from a recognised brand not some cheap Chinese copy then the dealer needs to taker it back in my view for the full price paid, which is difficult if there was a trade in

 

[ridger]

In this case though it looks like a bad fitting wheel rim to be honest

 

[Bloders]

Rubbish. Shouldn't be any vertical load on the bolts

what supplies the drive force then? - the bolts.
wheels are designed to be clamped tight - its the friction between the wheel and the hub which transmits ALL teh forces. Hubs and wheels are NOT a precision machined fit.

 

[Bloders]

This is not a situation where friction comes into the equation - coefficient of friction only comes into play where two surfaces are moving against each other. A wheel / hub combination should exhibit zero relative movement.

and it is friction which stops the relative movement.
The bolts apply a tensile load, then friction provides the other requried forces. Maths explains it all

 

[Bloders]

When wheel nuts /studs don’t incorporate a taper then these are what are used to locate within the countersunk holes in the rim - the weight and the rotational forces are taken on the taper and need to be subject to high tension in the threaded portion of the wheel bolt / stud.
Under no circumstances is friction a factor.
View attachment 1017379

they are to centralise the wheel on the hub, so that when you tighten the wheel nuts down, it is located concentric on the hub.

 

[Dave W]

what supplies the drive force then? - the bolts.
wheels are designed to be clamped tight - its the friction between the wheel and the hub which transmits ALL teh forces. Hubs and wheels are NOT a precision machined fit.

You've just agreed with me. There shouldn't be any vertical or lateral forced on the studs. Just tension on the bolts. Friction does the rest.
But in the OP case something isn't right. Something isn't compatible

 

[Courier]

they are to centralise the wheel on the hub, so that when you tighten the wheel nuts down, it is located concentric on the hub.

Exactly, and then they take all the weight and rotating forces …

 

[Frankzy]

This is not a situation where friction comes into the equation - coefficient of friction only comes into play where two surfaces are moving against each other. A wheel / hub combination should exhibit zero relative movement.

I think you've forgotten the fundamentals of physics, friction is absolutely a thing when objects are stationary relative to one another.
The sole job of the bolts/studs is to clamp the rim to the hub so the amount of friction is much greater than any force produced by the weight of the vehicle or the rotational force from accelerating/decelerating.
In other words the bolts will only ever experience tension loads. If the bolts start to see any noticeable shear loads they will fail in short order.

ah well, i got the wrong video then

No the video is bang on.

 

[Courier]

I think you've forgotten the fundamentals of physics, friction is absolutely a thing when objects are stationary relative to one another.
The sole job of the bolts/studs is to clamp the rim to the hub so the amount of friction is much greater than any force produced by the weight of the vehicle or the rotational force from accelerating/decelerating.
In other words the bolts will only ever experience tension loads. If the bolts start to see any noticeable shear loads they will fail in short order.


No the video is bang on.

OK then, when a wheel is designed to be held on by straight studs and “conical washers” and the conical washers were replace with plain washer equivalent would you be happy sending a truck out or would you expect the wheel to work loose because the “friction” is inadequate ?

 

[Frankzy]

OK then, when a wheel is designed to be held on by straight studs and “conical washers” and the conical washers were replace with plain washer equivalent would you be happy sending a truck out or would you expect the wheel to work loose because the “friction” is inadequate ?

I... What?
I have no clue what you mean, are you talking about conical spring washers or the ones that are "sunk" into the rim? (English is not my first language so I'm not 100% sure on what they are called)

Either way I don't see how that is relevant? Of course you don't omit things that is intended to be used in assembly...

 

[Courier]

I... What?
I have no clue what you mean, are you talking about conical spring washers or the ones that are "sunk" into the rim? (English is not my first language so I'm not 100% sure on what they are called)

Either way I don't see how that is relevant? Of course you don't omit things that is intended to be used in assembly...

See post 81

 

[Frankzy]

See post 8

I'm just getting more confused over here..

 

[7610 super q]

Surprisingly long thread this is.