Fuel Tanks monitoring

[warksfarmer]

Not sure this is the correct forum but we have got 5 kero tanks used for house oil and 2 red diesel tanks for machinery and I am questioning whether we are getting delivered what the delivery tickets are saying. I am confident its not being stolen after delivery because all tanks are locked and I know where each key is and I have been watching carefully using CCTV etc.

So really the finger then points at the delivery vehicles because we are very rarely around when delivery occurs and generally unlock the tank prior to delivery then lock back up after. All these tanks are just basic plastic double bunded ones with no monitoring systems on it. 1 of the red derv tanks monitors what goes out obviously but not whats in at any one time.

So is there a simple system that will give me accurate read outs of whats in each tank? Can I buy something to drop into the tanks?

We do have dip sticks but to be honest its hit and miss and very hard to know if you have not had 200 litres in a 5000 litre drop?

Any ideas please?

 

[sleepy]

Are the receipts that the driver leaves behind (and gives to his office) not generated automatically by the flow meter on the lorry? OK the flow meter could be dodgey but I can't see how the driver could otherwise get the printer to say it had printed more (unless he stuck the hose back in the top of the tank or something

)

We have one of these that came with the tank but it wouldn't be accurate enough.
http://www.commercialfuelsolutions.co.uk/equipment/level_gauge/oil_watchman.html

Could you not rig up a better dipstick (perhaps going in via one of the spare inlets on the top)? I'm not sure how you would graduate them though without starting from empty and pumping in from another tank, and then what happens if your flow meter isn't quite accurate...

 

[Fendt415]

Change suppliers for 6 months, see if your problem stops.

 

[warksfarmer]

Are the receipts that the driver leaves behind (and gives to his office) not generated automatically by the flow meter on the lorry? OK the flow meter could be dodgey but I can't see how the driver could otherwise get the printer to say it had printed more (unless he stuck the hose back in the top of the tank or something

)

We have one of these that came with the tank but it wouldn't be accurate enough.
http://www.commercialfuelsolutions.co.uk/equipment/level_gauge/oil_watchman.html

Could you not rig up a better dipstick (perhaps going in via one of the spare inlets on the top)? I'm not sure how you would graduate them though without starting from empty and pumping in from another tank, and then what happens if your flow meter isn't quite accurate...

I am thinking the printed read outs on the tickets are incorrect to whats been delivered to site but correct to whats come out the truck. So e.g. they are bringing 5000l of kero in and before they arrive they offload 500l on route and then delivered me 4500l. The ticket to me says 5000l and the ticket to the office says 5000l so I am billed.

I am fully aware of flowmeters and the fact the tickets are dated and time stamped but if people in this world can clone credit cards and steal people identities then surely getting round a fuel trucks ticketing system would be easy enough?

I have just changed the fuel supplier for the last delivery so am going down this route for a month or so to see, but I still think a proper accurate monitoring system is a good idea.

 

[Blue.]

I am thinking the printed read outs on the tickets are incorrect to whats been delivered to site but correct to whats come out the truck. So e.g. they are bringing 5000l of kero in and before they arrive they offload 500l on route and then delivered me 4500l. The ticket to me says 5000l and the ticket to the office says 5000l so I am billed.

I am fully aware of flowmeters and the fact the tickets are dated and time stamped but if people in this world can clone credit cards and steal people identities then surely getting round a fuel trucks ticketing system would be easy enough?

I have just changed the fuel supplier for the last delivery so am going down this route for a month or so to see, but I still think a proper accurate monitoring system is a good idea.

It's a known fiddle! driver lands your not about so they put 4500l in your tank then put 500l back in the tanker via the lid ready to drop off on the way home.

A good sight gauge and just drop it into conversation with the driver you've heard about the fiddle going on should sort it.

 

[Mydexta]

Could you not get a flow meter and pipe it to the inlet of the tank. Take readings before its filled up and after it filled

 

[warksfarmer]

It's a known fiddle! driver lands your not about so they put 4500l in your tank then put 500l back in the tanker via the lid ready to drop off on the way home.

A good sight gauge and just drop it into conversation with the driver you've heard about the fiddle going on should sort it.

Theres me thinking to hard about this and the answer is so simple

Thank you very much.

 

[KJL]

Another option is to run all fuel deliveries over the weighbridge.

 

[Blue.]

Another option is to run all fuel deliveries over the weighbridge.

A big local farm does that,only one supplier was bang on every time (shame they are the dearest)

 

[Exfarmer]

It is very simple to measure the delivery for a rectangular tank
Say it is a 6000 litre tank
Divide this by the height in millimetres
So if it is 1500 high
Each mm = 4 litres
Just dip the tank first thing then after delivery dip again
In this case a 5000 delivery would have raised the fuel level by 1250 mm
Just use a tape measure
Simples

 

[franklin]

Another option is to run all fuel deliveries over the weighbridge.

Or if you havent got one, put weigh cells under each tank?

 

[Elmsted]

Of course you have factored in that litres recorded on printed lorry meter delivery ticket change with tempreture. Same as we do the price paid per litre is at a reference tempreture and hence winter versus summer are different volumes.

Put simply dip a tank in winter it shows 20,000 litres. Leave it till summer and it overflows. In to the bunding.

Edit: we always photo the counter on lorry before and after, plus stand by all the time.

 

[Enry]

Convinced its happened here with heating oil - driver arrived at 5.50am, dark, showed him tank and went back to bed. Generally get oil every 7-8 months, this lasted 4.5months.

 

[Clive]

Had never thought about this before !

Everything will go over the weighbridge now

While on the subject anyone know of a good computer based fuel use monitoring software etc ?

Want to keep a buyer eye on our tractor fuel use and allocate better between harvest and establishment etc

 

[Elmsted]

Clive just if you can knowing you have records what is your TOTAL fuel use per hectare above or below 50 litres. Includes farm vehicles heating workshop and a disel quaddy thing and the partners vehicle.

 

[llamedos]

Or you could do like, someone round here did, ask for last drop of the day, due to yard works going on wait down road, follow driver and wait for him to pull up, off load yours and others fuel into a pick up with a tank on the back, photograph, ring police to pre arranged intercept long winded but he had the satifaction of catching the scumbag & mate after almost 12 months of short deliveries yes its a well known rip off.

If you are being ripped off his mate wont be far behind him

 

[Lincsman]

The lorry will have a grand total of all the fuel its pumped, (its printed on your ticket) so if its pumped twice (to get it back in the spare lorry tank... they dont have lids now though!) then questions will be asked how could it rack up so many more litres than sold, when weights and measures check it, he would have to start "your" delivery at another location before coming to you, with the ticket in the meter, but that even shows start and end times.

 

[snowhite]

Or if you havent got one, put weigh cells under each tank?

what does that cost ?

 

[snowhite]

Or you could do like, someone round here did, ask for last drop of the day, due to yard works going on wait down road, follow driver and wait for him to pull up, off load yours and others fuel into a pick up with a tank on the back, photograph, ring police to pre arranged intercept long winded but he had the satifaction of catching the scumbag & mate after almost 12 months of short deliveries yes its a well known rip off.

If you are being ripped off his mate wont be far behind him

clever man

 

[DrDunc]

Had never thought about this before !

Everything will go over the weighbridge now

While on the subject anyone know of a good computer based fuel use monitoring software etc ?

Want to keep a buyer eye on our tractor fuel use and allocate better between harvest and establishment etc

For Fuel usage software, I've been using "my car" on my android phone for several years. The phone is always in my pocket so I don't have to remember to update a computer record. It's backed up to excel though.

I tried out lots of apps. This one was best. However they are all aimed at car use. To get litres per hour, I enter the hours as km. Then display the results as l/100km in the app, which equates to l/100hrs.

Also remember if you're using a weigh bridge, the density of gas oil at 25dC is 835kg per 1000litres.

 

[grumpy]

I reckon its an old wives tale of drivers not delivering the full amount,all the drivers ive met were top guys working hardwhy would they risk there job to make a few extra quid as if they were doing it big time it would soon show up.lee hasn't said why he thinks he isn't getting the full amount?is not lasting as long as you think it should?