Gaining planning permission for free range egg production

[Mcclelland]

I’m trying to identify how hard it is to gain planning permission in Scotland for 32k chickens on 32acres not near major or minor roads.Im told this could cost £20k in planning fees,would that be accurate?Thank for any information

 

[Eggs and Things]

Haven't done one for a while, but we paid close to your figure 25 years ago. Today, with planning gain and environmental reports, I would imagine it would be a lot higher.
My more important comment is, are you looking to get into the industry for the first time or expand an existing site? If it is the former, please be very careful. There are a lot of vested interests, polished figures and out right lies in the egg trade. Do NOT believe anything that someone who sells any product, or buys eggs says about the industry, especially their numbers. Get everything confirmed by two people who no skin in your decision, and who were not suggested by the helpful salemen or egg packer.
Sorry to be so blunt, certainly don't want to stiffle ambition, but have seen too many people get conned into paying over the odds for the privilege of a million pound milestone.
On a brighter note, am happy to help if you want a third party opinion on something.

 

[Sleepeasy]

Also you need 40 acres for 32k and the job will soon be fecked again

 

[Sleepeasy]

1ha per 2k birds. The jobs good for a short time it won’t be shortly look at dairy industry

 

[Daniel]

I’m trying to identify how hard it is to gain planning permission in Scotland for 32k chickens on 32acres not near major or minor roads.Im told this could cost £20k in planning fees,would that be accurate?Thank for any information

32 acres will be enough land for 25600 hens.

Comfortably £1.5 million currently, possibly more if you have to install new electricity and water supplies. If you’re starting the planning process now you won’t have any eggs to sell for 18 months at least, probably longer.

Ask any packer what they were paying for eggs 18 months ago and do your sums based on that.

Then ask them to guarantee a price, in a legally binding contract, starting 18 months from now for at least 3 flocks at a level which gives you a return on investment and a profit.

Best of luck!

 

[yin ewe]

I’m trying to identify how hard it is to gain planning permission in Scotland for 32k chickens on 32acres not near major or minor roads.Im told this could cost £20k in planning fees,would that be accurate?Thank for any information

Should say we are in NI so may not be exactly the same for you
Know someone who spent £25k on planning for a 32k site. Total build cost was £1.6 million but site was fairly level and hard so he didn't need much stone.
We built our 16k house for £550k including planning that was 2 1/2 years ago.
According to our egg packer the market is still strong with demand outstripping production but as has been said it will be at least 18 months from you start planning until you have eggs, who knows what will be then!!!

 

[Eggs and Things]

Then ask them to guarantee a price, in a legally binding contract, starting 18 months from now for at least 3 flocks at a level which gives you a return on investment and a profit.

Do this. End of discussion.
For all of the talk of sustainability and securing future supply, ask for a priced deal, and be laughed out of the room.
Bank loan will be 12-20 years. Contracts should reflect this. But as we should know, talk and actions are two very different things!

 

[Mcclelland]

Haven't done one for a while, but we paid close to your figure 25 years ago. Today, with planning gain and environmental reports, I would imagine it would be a lot higher.
My more important comment is, are you looking to get into the industry for the first time or expand an existing site? If it is the former, please be very careful. There are a lot of vested interests, polished figures and out right lies in the egg trade. Do NOT believe anything that someone who sells any product, or buys eggs says about the industry, especially their numbers. Get everything confirmed by two people who no skin in your decision, and who were not suggested by the helpful salemen or egg packer.
Sorry to be so blunt, certainly don't want to stiffle ambition, but have seen too many people get conned into paying over the odds for the privilege of a million pound milestone.
On a brighter note, am happy to help if you want a third party opinion on something.

Well im following up the advert you probably read in the Scottish farmer two weeks ago.Went through to their headquarters and had a good informative couple of hours there.What concerned me was if I spent £20K and failed to gain planning permission I would be considerably out of pocket.This expense was a prerequisite for working with the company and an accountant I spoke to felt that ,even with planning approval was I not buying a job for £20k ?Cant get my head totally round this as it seems to have many pluses if your prepared to chance planning refusal and I loss of money I can ill afford!

 

[R J]

Virtually impossible to get planning for a new site now unfortunately

 

[Daniel]

Well im following up the advert you probably read in the Scottish farmer two weeks ago.Went through to their headquarters and had a good informative couple of hours there.What concerned me was if I spent £20K and failed to gain planning permission I would be considerably out of pocket.This expense was a prerequisite for working with the company and an accountant I spoke to felt that ,even with planning approval was I not buying a job for £20k ?Cant get my head totally round this as it seems to have many pluses if your prepared to chance planning refusal and I loss of money I can ill afford!

Which packer was it, Glenrath?

 

[Mcclelland]

Yes pleasant people who were helpful and gave us plenty of time

 

[Frodo]

I’m trying to identify how permission in Scotland for 32k chickens on 32acres not near major or minor roaIm told this could cost £20k in planning fees,would that be accurate?Thank for any

 

[Frodo]

Which packer was it, Glenrath?

 

[Frodo]

it all depends on the detail, but does seem a lower risk model

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

How many mobile units could you get on there without pp?

 

[Eggs and Things]

it all depends on the detail, but does seem a lower risk model

Exactly, these sorts of models do reduce the outright financial risk, but open up some challenges.
If you are not building the unit yourself, you are basically going to be paid labour and ground rent. This can be very useful cashflow in a business, say to support another generation needing a wage.
However your upside is limited, and you are still making the same length of commitment as if you had built the shed yourself.
What happens if you want to sell the farm and Campbells have a £1.5 million asset in the middle of it, which you are bound to provide labour for.

 

[Eggs and Things]

Also, how the hell do you need that size (144m x 24m) of shed to house 32k birds? What are they doing - giving them a nest box each!?

 

[yin ewe]

Exactly, these sorts of models do reduce the outright financial risk, but open up some challenges.
If you are not building the unit yourself, you are basically going to be paid labour and ground rent. This can be very useful cashflow in a business, say to support another generation needing a wage.
However your upside is limited, and you are still making the same length of commitment as if you had built the shed yourself.
What happens if you want to sell the farm and Campbells have a £1.5 million asset in the middle of it, which you are bound to provide labour for.

Our packer put in about 80% of the build cost and we put in the rest. He wants his money back in 6/7 crops and retains use (not ownership) of the house and 8ha of range area until the house is fully paid. We get a monthly management fee plus an end of crop payment if there is anything left after he gets his loan repayment. We thought this was a better option than going to the bank as it means the packer is committed to you as much as you are committed to them.

 

[Eggs and Things]

Our packer put in about 80% of the build cost and we put in the rest. He wants his money back in 6/7 crops and retains use (not ownership) of the house and 8ha of range area until the house is fully paid. We get a monthly management fee plus an end of crop payment if there is anything left after he gets his loan repayment. We thought this was a better option than going to the bank as it means the packer is committed to you as much as you are committed to them.

That sounds like a much better deal than I imagined. When the house is paid, say 9 years, do you own it free and clear and are able to switch packer if you want?
Certainly means you don't have to borrow large sums.
My cynical head would say how do they pay for the shed in 6/7 crops?

 

[yin ewe]

That sounds like a much better deal than I imagined. When the house is paid, say 9 years, do you own it free and clear and are able to switch packer if you want?
Certainly means you don't have to borrow large sums.
My cynical head would say how do they pay for the shed in 6/7 crops?

Yes clear after the house is paid but I think you have to give a 2 crop notice period ie. the current crop plus another full crop. The figures he showed us for income/payback were based on £7.25/bird after all costs and our first crop did just over that. This crop is looking to be around double that figure.