Grade II listed buildings

[Adam@Rumen]

I was looking at buying a lodge house recently that wasn't listed, but was linked to the grade 2 listed hall.

The windows were all single glazed sash windows, could replace with double glazed but they're have to remain as sash windows and be wooden framed. £1000 a window... be even worse with a proper grade 2 listed place.

 

[renewablejohn]

Quite. I bet the planners wouldn't want to live in a drafty single glassed house.......
I would never, ever buy a listed building, but as said above, if they come along and list it after you've bought it, you're fudgeed.
I wonder how many will get abandoned and left to crumble to nothing because of these half baked policies.

A lot of these half baked policies have nothing to do with English Heritage but over zealous conservation officers who allow there perceived power to go to there heads. Our conservation officer was like the gestapo but after four and a half years and assistance from English Heritage proving how irrational the conservation officer was being we got our way. Yes we have had to be flexible like putting the holes for the heat recovery system hidden behind the spouting. The conservation officer original stance was no holes through the fabric of the building. At the end of the day we will end up with a warm house fit for another 300 years.

 

[Pilgrimmick]

Know of someone who restored a tatty old farmhouse that was listed, he ripped out all the old formica in the kitchen and replaced it with period style oak panels, did a fantastic job.
When the inspectors came they made him replace the formica, as it had to stay as it was on the day of listing, when the formica was already in place. Jobsworth or what?

 

[JLTate]

I was looking at buying a lodge house recently that wasn't listed, but was linked to the grade 2 listed hall.

The windows were all single glazed sash windows, could replace with double glazed but they're have to remain as sash windows and be wooden framed. £1000 a window... be even worse with a proper grade 2 listed place.

That'll be plus VAT / unpainted and supplied only at that price I should think and even then the quality I should think would be questionable.

 

[Doing it for the kids]

Dont kid yourself. Just go on the listed building website and you will see how it has been recorded and when.

Exactly

Not all are detailed, especially inside. If there are no sales partics or other online info then who's to say what was there.

 

[Lincs Lass]

My house is G2 listed ,,aquired it in 1978 ,,it had a load of work done to it as the roof fell in ,,English heritage and the council insisted that the windows had to be shash cord and single glazed ,now nearly 40 years on ,the frames are rotting but still not allowed to put double glazed ,UPVC looka like wood grain in .
The doors are wooden and let a howling gail in ,the back door is a split stable type which basically just fills a hole in the wall ,,even the stair case couldnt be modernised ,its only the woodworm holding hands that keeps it together

 

[The Ruminant]

Anyone know where to find the legislation as it seems it’s down to the whim of the local listed building inspector. Surely there are set rules, or is that too much to ask??!!

 

[Pilgrimmick]

My house is G2 listed ,,aquired it in 1978 ,,it had a load of work done to it as the roof fell in ,,English heritage and the council insisted that the windows had to be shash cord and single glazed ,now nearly 40 years on ,the frames are rotting but still not allowed to put double glazed ,UPVC looka like wood grain in .
The doors are wooden and let a howling gail in ,the back door is a split stable type which basically just fills a hole in the wall ,,even the stair case couldnt be modernised ,its only the woodworm holding hands that keeps it together

Was going to like this post, then realised that there was no way I could do that. What we need is a sympathy button!

 

[renewablejohn]

My house is G2 listed ,,aquired it in 1978 ,,it had a load of work done to it as the roof fell in ,,English heritage and the council insisted that the windows had to be shash cord and single glazed ,now nearly 40 years on ,the frames are rotting but still not allowed to put double glazed ,UPVC looka like wood grain in .
The doors are wooden and let a howling gail in ,the back door is a split stable type which basically just fills a hole in the wall ,,even the stair case couldnt be modernised ,its only the woodworm holding hands that keeps it together

English Heritage have moved a lot in the last 40 years its a shame conservation officers have not kept pace. You will probably still be stuck with sash windows but you should be able to have triple glazing and modern seals but UPVC will probably be a step to far. We even managed to get Swedish style outward opening doors in sealed frames but the compromise was the stipulation it had to be manufactured from oak so not cheap.
You might get away with a sealed sash window and a mechanical ventilation system. I know English Heritage where very keen on Mechanical Ventilation as it provides a very controlled climate protecting the fabric of the building and was a condition of us using sealed triple glazed units.

 

[rob1]

got rid of my listed farmhouse when I got divorced, not sure which cost me more keeping the house or the ex in a decent state, glad to see the back of both of them, often the problem is the conservation officers, each one wnats different things

 

[theboytheboy]

If your house is listed but it's just a vague description of the outside with no mention of internal layout /fittings/ window material etc what's stops you replacing wooden single glaze sash windows to upvc? Who's is to say is wasn't done years ago?

 

[Clive]

Have just completely gutted, extended / restored a grade 2 property - they were ok with double glazed sash windows and a lot of modernisation including moving staircase and removal of some major walls and addition of a basement

I think its all about the officer you get and putting across that you are investing i the buildings future and also trading off some bad stuff that may have been done in the past pre listing

 

[Clive]

If your house is listed but it's just a vague description of the outside with no mention of internal layout /fittings/ window material etc what's stops you replacing wooden single glaze sash windows to upvc? Who's is to say is wasn't done years ago?

.......and there is this ;-)

but don't use UPVC - is should be banned full stop never mind just on listed buildings !

 

[JLTate]

If your house is listed but it's just a vague description of the outside with no mention of internal layout /fittings/ window material etc what's stops you replacing wooden single glaze sash windows to upvc? Who's is to say is wasn't done years ago?

It would be down to neighbours complaining / people objecting - which they would. You might get away with it. But you might not. They aren't thick, and if you rub them up the wrong way they can make your life hell.

its an expensive gamble if you don't.

I'm a Joiner as my primary employment (farm is an evening / weekend affair) no matter what 'grain effect' or the like UPVC looks nothing like timber. You should be able to get double glazed timber windows in a grade two listed building (even if its slim line double glazed units which aren't as good) - timber windows have come on massively. They aren't the same as they were 20, even 10 years ago. A good bespoke Joinery manufacturing company will be able to make new sliding sash double glazed windows look identical to your original putty pointed windows to your average Joe

The windows / doors we manufacture are A rated efficiency and perform better than UPVC.

As for cost a good timber window should see you through 30 years before repairs are needed provided there maintained then another 15 if repaired properly, the timber is also just as good now as it was years ago.

 

[phillipe]

The problem is on the day the building was listed ,if it had a flat roof it was listed,if it had metal wimdows single glazed it was listed,if uou get a terrible listing officer you fecked

 

[7610 super q]

Cadw, the Welsh alternative to English Heritage, take photos on a regular basis. We've never allowed them inside the house, but the previous owner did. You could not get away with making alterations, and I wouldn't want to. We've replaced singled glazed sash windows like for like, but it would be nice to fit double glazed sash without all the fuss and bother. It is, at the end of the day, someone's home not a museum.

 

[Pilgrimmick]

I wonder what would happed if someone went through the courts to recover costs incurred heating a single glazed house compared to a double/triple glazed one, Think the conservation people would have a hard time justifying their stance on single glazing.

 

[rob1]

what gets me is the requirement to fit old clay tiles etc if a roof needs repairing, fair enough use nice clay ones but ffs how long do these fools think they will last, when these houses were built they had new tiles on so whats the problem with using new clay ones to a similar design, the roof would be fit for another 100 years, strange how wilts council used double glazing and new tiles on a rebuilt building in the grounds of a grade one tithe barn in bradford on avon, then denied the tiles were new until I showed them an advert showing the building by the tile makers

 

[Doing it for the kids]

It would be down to neighbours complaining / people objecting - which they would. You might get away with it. But you might not. They aren't thick, and if you rub them up the wrong way they can make your life hell.

its an expensive gamble if you don't.

I'm a Joiner as my primary employment (farm is an evening / weekend affair) no matter what 'grain effect' or the like UPVC looks nothing like timber. You should be able to get double glazed timber windows in a grade two listed building (even if its slim line double glazed units which aren't as good) - timber windows have come on massively. They aren't the same as they were 20, even 10 years ago. A good bespoke Joinery manufacturing company will be able to make new sliding sash double glazed windows look identical to your original putty pointed windows to your average Joe

The windows / doors we manufacture are A rated efficiency and perform better than UPVC.

As for cost a good timber window should see you through 30 years before repairs are needed provided there maintained then another 15 if repaired properly, the timber is also just as good now as it was years ago.

The trouble with timber is the maintainance, they need painting every few years and today's paint is useless. I am appalled at how some of our new paint jobs look just a few yrs on

 

[SilliamWhale]

The trouble with timber is the maintainance, they need painting every few years and today's paint is useless. I am appalled at how some of our new paint jobs look just a few yrs on

Linseed oil paint. Its great. Use it on external wood now