Ground Source Heating

[Ffermer Bach]

That would be a big no ,no in scotland, not aloud to put pipes in any kind of water course ,

I get the impression your SNP government wants to control every facet of live in Scotland, even asking children to tell on what their parents say at home (and giving each child a SNP mentor to ensure they think the right way)

 

[renewablejohn]

If you like jail if it ever leaks

Hang on a minute. Why does it matter if it leaks its only water in the coil there is no need for glycol or other nasties as where talking a water to water system with the water above freezing.

 

[chickens and wheat]

The pump would have glycol in only as far as the heat exchanger, water from the stream would be pumped through the other side of the heat exchanger.
A leak is only possible if the heat exchanger ruptures, even then the amount of glycol needed is very small compared to an underground gshp array.

The glycol is not the highly toxic stuff found in engine anti freeze,its a much milder form of glycol, I forget the chemical names

 

[renewablejohn]

The pump would have glycol in only as far as the heat exchanger, water from the stream would be pumped through the other side of the heat exchanger.
A leak is only possible if the heat exchanger ruptures, even then the amount of glycol needed is very small compared to an underground gshp array.

The glycol is not the highly toxic stuff found in engine anti freeze,its a much milder form of glycol, I forget the chemical names

To avoid problems with EA you dont pump water from the stream as you would need an abstraction licence for that. What your extracting from the stream is only heat from a closed loop coil located in the stream or pond. Being closed loop you also get the benefit of the system not silting up from the stream water.

 

[Speedstar]

Hang on a minute. Why does it matter if it leaks its only water in the coil there is no need for glycol or other nasties as where talking a water to water system with the water above freezing.

It would need Glycol in it .

 

[renewablejohn]

It would need Glycol in it .

Systems I have seen do not use glycol as the running water is always above freezing. I would expect any heatpump to come with a frost stat and if your really concerned that insulated pipes will freeze you could always use heat tape on the pipes but there really is no need in UK climate as your not talking -25C.

 

[suffolksmallholder]

I need 4 X 50m slinkies for my Victorian farm house. Kensa are involved and are a joy to work with.
SS

 

[Mur Huwcun]

I need 4 X 50m slinkies for my Victorian farm house. Kensa are involved and are a joy to work with.
SS

Does not sound a lot to me 4 of 50m, it’s only 200m of pipe unless your in a bog with practically running water in the ground!!

 

[Mur Huwcun]

Have a look on the Navitron site there is an excellent case study on there by one of the forum members. As for officialdom in these sort of cases I am a great believer in stealth. Especially if mill ponds etc already exist. Who is going to notice a copper coil in a mill pond.

I was more hopeing on the heat exchanger idea rather than using the pond as it’s overgrown and not deep at all as the sluice is not there any more. Extracting 5 to 6 degree continuously from running water would have a fantastic COP efficiency because a hard winter in March can burn electricity as the efficiency of the ground loops plumet. Beast from the east in March 2018 was eye watering

 

[Exfarmer]

If you are going to extract heat from a source very close to freezing , you will absolutely definitely, need antifreeze in the circulating fluid .

 

[Exfarmer]

You need running water for a heat pump. A static source would easily become a block of ice and all heating would stop dead!

 

[chickens and wheat]

Glycol does more than frost proof it helps with heat transfer

 

[Exfarmer]

Glycol does more than frost proof it helps with heat transfer

You sure? I thought more Glycol the less efficient a radiator is. Which is why you should not go over the top on percentage antifreeze

 

[renewablejohn]

I was more hopeing on the heat exchanger idea rather than using the pond as it’s overgrown and not deep at all as the sluice is not there any more. Extracting 5 to 6 degree continuously from running water would have a fantastic COP efficiency because a hard winter in March can burn electricity as the efficiency of the ground loops plumet. Beast from the east in March 2018 was eye watering

The Navitron case study is a heat exchange to a heat pump. It works more efficiently as it uses copper tube rather than plastic.

 

[renewablejohn]

If you are going to extract heat from a source very close to freezing , you will absolutely definitely, need antifreeze in the circulating fluid .

Not with a frost stat on the heat pump.

 

[renewablejohn]

You sure? I thought more Glycol the less efficient a radiator is. Which is why you should not go over the top on percentage antifreeze

Thats always been my understanding and would need some convincing otherwise.

 

[chickens and wheat]

depends what product i guess
improve efficiency

Thermox DTX - Glycol Ground & Air Source Heat Transfer Fluid

A High Efficiency Non-Toxic Heat Transfer Fluid with Antifreeze Function. Based on Ethylene Glycol for use in Ground & Air Source Systems.

hydratech-shop.co.uk

decreased efficiency

Thermox FPG - Propylene Glycol Ground & Air Source Heat Transfer Fluid

Non-Toxic Heat Transfer Fluid with Antifreeze, for use in Geothermal & Air Source Heat Recovery Systems. Based on Propylene Glycol.

hydratech-shop.co.uk

from google" Heat Transfer Efficiency - Glycol is 5-10% less efficient than water in transferring heat. However, this is more than recouped by the elimination of scale, dirt, and corrosion that can reduce heat transfer! "

 

[Exfarmer]

Not with a frost stat on the heat pump.

If your pond water is only 1 degree, you are going to need circulating water at minus 3 to get any real pick up and preferably minus 5-6 .
Heat transfer is grossly affected by heat gradient.

 

[Exfarmer]

depends what product i guess
improve efficiency

Thermox DTX - Glycol Ground & Air Source Heat Transfer Fluid

A High Efficiency Non-Toxic Heat Transfer Fluid with Antifreeze Function. Based on Ethylene Glycol for use in Ground & Air Source Systems.

hydratech-shop.co.uk

decreased efficiency

Thermox FPG - Propylene Glycol Ground & Air Source Heat Transfer Fluid

Non-Toxic Heat Transfer Fluid with Antifreeze, for use in Geothermal & Air Source Heat Recovery Systems. Based on Propylene Glycol.

hydratech-shop.co.uk

from google" Heat Transfer Efficiency - Glycol is 5-10% less efficient than water in transferring heat. However, this is more than recouped by the elimination of scale, dirt, and corrosion that can reduce heat transfer! "

Scale and corrosion will be eliminated by using pure water and not introducing oxygen in the system. Which wont occur in a closed loop system.

 

[renewablejohn]

If your pond water is only 1 degree, you are going to need circulating water at minus 3 to get any real pick up and preferably minus 5-6 .
Heat transfer is grossly affected by heat gradient.

But were not on about 1 degree. Even if the surface of the pond is frozen the temperature below the surface is many degrees above freezing. You have been watching to many episodes of ice road truckers. We just dont get in the UK that duration of cold temperatures to freeze water at depth. The op is talking of a mill pond continually being filled with running water so it will never be as low as 1 degree.