Growing and keeping your own grass

[True North]

30 acres is a decent skelp of ground, @True North should be farming it/managing it themselves, not just looking out the window at it.

They should be encouraged to start doing the straightforward things first, like hay turning.
I've mentioned some other things in my post above.

You'll also have to manage weed control, the cheapest way is with an appropriate chemical and a knapsack sprayer, go round the edges in late spring and make sure you nuke all the docks, thistles and rushes if present. You'll need a qualification to do that - PA1 and PA6 which courses (1 day each) you can attend at an Ag college.

Yes, the costs are mounting up, but you'll have to start somewhere.
Sounds like you wont stop at making hay, you'll be feeding some of it to your own stock eventually.

Best wishes, I started 20 years ago from a zero knowledge base as well.

ld

There could be lots of options on 30 acres, I'm assuming they are at the start of a journey and full of enthusiasm. If its all in grass they'll need some basic equipment anyway which can get got quite cheaply and will last a long time.

One of the first things I bought 20 years ago was a hay turner, I've looked after it and its still going strong with a few parts replaced along the way. I just turn hay/haylage with it, don't row up - the balerman prefers to do the rowing up.

Same with the mower, its 18 years with me, looked after it, and it was only last year it had a minor trip to machinery A&E but I only lost a couple of days mowing. I prefer to do the mowing myself as I can decide when to go and how much to mow.

Mind you, if it was me on 30ac and I was at home most of the time, I'd still start a pedigree herd of cattle, if there was buildings as well. 10ac silage, 20ac grazing. What fun that would be!

Can I kidnap you as a farming mentor please?

 

[True North]

We have 20 acres and I'm having a bit of a miserable time with hay atm.

I'd keep your current deal, let the cost,risk and problem be someone else's if they're happy doing it.

Either rent out land your not using to a local that needs grass or buy a topper or both.

My issue is we have a lot of people locally looking at it like it's doing nothing and walking through it. Ideally I want some animals on there after it's cut and i want it farmed a bit more (with me learning about grass and grazingf as I go).

Currently, its been on a favour basis and i'm being paid in favours (field topped etc) but as you say I have none of the hassle, but also I have none of the say. We are looking at toppers currently so we can at least try.

This year, no fert, nothing put on it, and I haven't enough livestock myself to graze it after so the field (I think) is being underused and under cut.

 

[Hindsight]

We have around 30 acres, not all for cutting as steep in places, but most of it could be cut this year as we have had nothing on grazing.

Currently we have about 15 acres cut by a farmer that pays us £5ish for big rounds and £1ish for small bales. So around £500 for last year and going forward same again maybe double for 2 cuts plus BPS this year in terms of income.

We know it is a lot of work, we are new to farming and as such have set up and said that this is all with a view to setting on a bit more in our own time.

My question is this, would you move to a contractor? Is there much profit to be had after that?

I know we have the easy end of the deal but should we start doing a bit more ourselves?

Any advice welcome.

Stick it all into SFI winter seed for birds. Draw the sub. Let someone take a cut in late May. Enjoy a bottle of beer. Isn’t that what SFI is about.

 

[serf]

Stick it all into SFI winter seed for birds. Draw the sub. Let someone take a cut in late May. Enjoy a bottle of beer. Isn’t that what SFI is about.

How much will that pay , can he do that if it's PP?

 

[Mixedupfarmer]

Stick it all into SFI winter seed for birds. Draw the sub. Let someone take a cut in late May. Enjoy a bottle of beer. Isn’t that what SFI is about.

Makes you wonder if some all arable farms would be better to stick the whole lot into AHL2 @ £732/ha, SAM1 £5.80/ha + £95, IPM1 £989, IPM 3 £55/ha, IPM4 £45/ha, NUM1 £589, plus £20/ha on first 50ha. just keep a grant funded drill, topper, sprayer and tractor (or sell them and use a contractor), let the shooting, do something more rewarding with the rest of your time. That's £837.80/ha plus £2673/year assuming minimum 50ha, plus shooting income, plus maybe carbon credits? Bit of seed diesel and glyphosate, couple of gun days for the person writing the plans, sell this year's crops, surplus kit, etc (or put the kit away for 3 years, and review again then), pay off any debts and put the rest in a high interest account, along with future year BPS. It's nuts growing crops when you can do this with little risk, how many arable farms will earn this much after costs with grain etc price falling of a cliff? If you think your missing out, buy some grain futures. This will underwrite future arable rents, and make sure there is little available, at unsustainable rents. Makes you wonder....

 

[Hindsight]

How much will that pay , can he do that if it's PP?

£474 hectare. Eligible on Improved PP.

I have arable clients with an odd pasture field which usually gets a cut for hay or silage and then a sheep man in winter. Will just forget about the sheep man in winter in future.

 

[Hindsight]

Makes you wonder if some all arable farms would be better to stick the whole lot into AHL2 @ £732/ha, SAM1 £5.80/ha + £95, IPM1 £989, IPM 3 £55/ha, IPM4 £45/ha, NUM1 £589, plus £20/ha on first 50ha. just keep a grant funded drill, topper, sprayer and tractor (or sell them and use a contractor), let the shooting, do something more rewarding with the rest of your time. That's £837.80/ha plus £2673/year assuming minimum 50ha, plus shooting income, plus maybe carbon credits? Bit of seed diesel and glyphosate, couple of gun days for the person writing the plans, sell this year's crops, surplus kit, etc (or put the kit away for 3 years, and review again then), pay off any debts and put the rest in a high interest account, along with future year BPS. It's nuts growing crops when you can do this with little risk, how many arable farms will earn this much after costs with grain etc price falling of a cliff? If you think your missing out, buy some grain futures. This will underwrite future arable rents, and make sure there is little available, at unsustainable rents. Makes you wonder....

Yep, Defra is your competitor when it comes to tendering for land. Funny old world!?

 

[Mixedupfarmer]

Yep, Defra is your competitor when it comes to tendering for land. Funny old world!?

Can't see how any of this will help new entrants.

 

[Mixedupfarmer]

Makes you wonder if some all arable farms would be better to stick the whole lot into AHL2 @ £732/ha, SAM1 £5.80/ha + £95, IPM1 £989, IPM 3 £55/ha, IPM4 £45/ha, NUM1 £589, plus £20/ha on first 50ha. just keep a grant funded drill, topper, sprayer and tractor (or sell them and use a contractor), let the shooting, do something more rewarding with the rest of your time. That's £837.80/ha plus £2673/year assuming minimum 50ha, plus shooting income, plus maybe carbon credits? Bit of seed diesel and glyphosate, couple of gun days for the person writing the plans, sell this year's crops, surplus kit, etc (or put the kit away for 3 years, and review again then), pay off any debts and put the rest in a high interest account, along with future year BPS. It's nuts growing crops when you can do this with little risk, how many arable farms will earn this much after costs with grain etc price falling of a cliff? If you think your missing out, buy some grain futures. This will underwrite future arable rents, and make sure there is little available, at unsustainable rents. Makes you wonder....

No red tractor either, let sheds for storage, claim HRW1,2,3 on hedges.

 

[Hindsight]

No red tractor either, let sheds for storage, claim HRW1,2,3 on hedges.

Yep. Landlords used to take the BPS plus a bit but leave the land for you to mess about growing a crop. Working the SFI seems they can still get the same net return after costs deducted without the needor requirement to let you grow a crop. Be interesting to see how the agents and business consultants take this forward.

 

[Mixedupfarmer]

Yep. Landlords used to take the BPS plus a bit but leave the land for you to mess about growing a crop. Working the SFI seems they can still get the same net return after costs deducted without the needor requirement to let you grow a crop. Be interesting to see how the agents and business consultants take this forward.

crazy.

 

[No wot]

Yep. Landlords used to take the BPS plus a bit but leave the land for you to mess about growing a crop. Working the SFI seems they can still get the same net return after costs deducted without the needor requirement to let you grow a crop. Be interesting to see how the agents and business consultants take this forward.

It's literally sleep walking into a domestic food security disaster, i can see a few Lexions being jettisoned

 

[Dry Rot]

I have asked this before, presumably if you sign up, you are stuck until/if they decide to let you out? Is it really a good thing to tie land up in perpetuity?

 

[Goweresque]

I have asked this before, presumably if you sign up, you are stuck until/if they decide to let you out? Is it really a good thing to tie land up in perpetuity?

The SFI and other ELMS schemes are not endless, they are legal agreements for a fixed period, 3 years for SFI, not sure what the CS ones will be. The main issue is whether by your actions (or inactions) during the agreement period you have created some sort of statutorily protected habitat. If so when you exit the agreement you will then fall under pre-existing habitat legislation and the usage of your land will be significantly restricted, probably for no recompense at all.

 

[Steevo]

Makes you wonder if some all arable farms would be better to stick the whole lot into AHL2 @ £732/ha, SAM1 £5.80/ha + £95, IPM1 £989, IPM 3 £55/ha, IPM4 £45/ha, NUM1 £589, plus £20/ha on first 50ha. just keep a grant funded drill, topper, sprayer and tractor (or sell them and use a contractor), let the shooting, do something more rewarding with the rest of your time. That's £837.80/ha plus £2673/year assuming minimum 50ha, plus shooting income, plus maybe carbon credits? Bit of seed diesel and glyphosate, couple of gun days for the person writing the plans, sell this year's crops, surplus kit, etc (or put the kit away for 3 years, and review again then), pay off any debts and put the rest in a high interest account, along with future year BPS. It's nuts growing crops when you can do this with little risk, how many arable farms will earn this much after costs with grain etc price falling of a cliff? If you think you’re missing out, buy some grain futures. This will underwrite future arable rents, and make sure there is little available, at unsustainable rents. Makes you wonder....

Would make for an interesting “fantasy farming” thread on here!

 

[Rod Dumbreck]

You could get some native beef cattle, and graze them behind electric fence, they would sort out the grass and weed, less capital outlay, something to talk to in the evening after work, and just a few minutes a day. Before I started daily move grazing this field was a nightmare of thistles docks and stingers. (still a fair few stingers, but the cocksfoot grows crazy tall). I tried spraying for years but they keep coming back. No fertiliser, just FYM from time to time. Buy in some hay for the winter if you need.

 

[Dry Rot]

The SFI and other ELMS schemes are not endless, they are legal agreements for a fixed period, 3 years for SFI, not sure what the CS ones will be. The main issue is whether by your actions (or inactions) during the agreement period you have created some sort of statutorily protected habitat. If so when you exit the agreement you will then fall under pre-existing habitat legislation and the usage of your land will be significantly restricted, probably for no recompense at all.

As far as I am concerned, my instincts are correct then. No such thing as a free lunch! It is going to mean unrestricted land will sell at a premium!

 

[Coximus]

And get your money up front. All horse muck was harrowed in here, then the field rested. Horse muck is good fertiliser and sunlight/drying kills worm eggs.

thats the killer with horse grass - the horse folk remove all the goodness from the land, and for no overall gain!

 

[Coximus]

My issue is we have a lot of people locally looking at it like it's doing nothing and walking through it. Ideally I want some animals on there after it's cut and i want it farmed a bit more (with me learning about grass and grazingf as I go).

Currently, its been on a favour basis and i'm being paid in favours (field topped etc) but as you say I have none of the hassle, but also I have none of the say. We are looking at toppers currently so we can at least try.

This year, no fert, nothing put on it, and I havekn't enough livestock myself to graze it after so the field (I think) is being underused and under cut.

where in west yorks are you? Im just north of leeds and happy to see if theirs any common ground to work with?

 

[Dry Rot]

thats the killer with horse grass - the horse folk remove all the goodness from the land, and for no overall gain!

They forget about the pee which must taint the grass. No wonder such a high proportion of horses have ulcers.