Anyone any experience had beltex doing a great job small lambs hardy at birth and dont pull much out of the mother great quality lambs however its hard to keep those beltex rams alive.had tried charmoise before on suffolk cross ewe lambs they were hardy had a will to live but they just couldnt handle the cold .
Hardiness of charmoise for outdoor lambing ewe lambs on texel mules
- Thread starter Llmmm
- Start date
MJT
Member
Try a grass fed Beltex tup they’ll live a hell of a lot longer
MJT
Member
Youl usually find commercially reared grass fed rams are a lot more functional as they have to be, not stuck in small field being stuffed full of food, hence the ones with all the problems soon die out when they have to run half a mile shed as lambs and yearlings before being sold. I worked out I walked our Beltex ewes 1.3 mile round trip last week, and carried none of them, any that do lag behind not long into trip are culled due to not being functional .
I think that’s half the reason Charmoise have a reputation for being good mobile functional type of sheep as the breeders don’t stuff them with food and the chasing rosettes in the showring hasnt nackered a lot of the breed
Keepers
Member
- Location
- South West
I breed charmoise tups for outdoor lambing and have done so for a few years now
They do what they say on the tin, hard culled flock from the start with heavy selection criteria means good hardy lambs.
I dont advertise and I have the same customers keep returning for more rams year after year after not being able to get anything else to beat them on lambing ease and vigour on an outdoor system but as well as producing a high value end product that sells well live or dead
A few years ago we had that torrential rain during lambing, had 800 hoggs lamb outdoors in large paddocks, electric fencing, no shelter.
Picked up a few lambs but it was very rare to pick up a charmoise cross lamb and the charmoise tups had around 500 of that group, survival rates very high due to a few reasons, after that charmoise tups went onto not only the ewe lambs but also 1,000+ ewes.
Im tupping 520 to the charmoise this year
Just dont go and buy your tups from a "dispersal" sale which ends up just being a sale to get rid of shite, like someone else on here did
there is good sheep and shite sheep within the same breed, as any breed!
If you cant find a good charmoise breeder (im all sold out, so try @MRT ) then the right beltex should be grand ( @MJT )
They do what they say on the tin, hard culled flock from the start with heavy selection criteria means good hardy lambs.
I dont advertise and I have the same customers keep returning for more rams year after year after not being able to get anything else to beat them on lambing ease and vigour on an outdoor system but as well as producing a high value end product that sells well live or dead
A few years ago we had that torrential rain during lambing, had 800 hoggs lamb outdoors in large paddocks, electric fencing, no shelter.
Picked up a few lambs but it was very rare to pick up a charmoise cross lamb and the charmoise tups had around 500 of that group, survival rates very high due to a few reasons, after that charmoise tups went onto not only the ewe lambs but also 1,000+ ewes.
Im tupping 520 to the charmoise this year
Just dont go and buy your tups from a "dispersal" sale which ends up just being a sale to get rid of shite, like someone else on here did
there is good sheep and shite sheep within the same breed, as any breed!If you cant find a good charmoise breeder (im all sold out, so try @MRT ) then the right beltex should be grand ( @MJT )
- Location
- West Wales
I’m a big one for running ewes, 6-8mph for 1.5mile, into the pens, do a job and then back out 1.5mile to the field, every ewe has to achieve this every few weeks, except at lambing I don’t pull a trailer, any that sit down/stop get a cull tag to be taken out on the next draw.
I’m moving from indoor lambing ewe lambs from Charolais rams to moving to outdoor on my ewe lambs with a Charmoise sire so very much looking forward to seeing the lambs!
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- Location
- Scottish Borders
I lambed 80 or so ewe lambs this year to 2 charmoise rams sourced from @MRT . Amazingly hardy and active at birth. Up onto the teat in no time .
I had a couple of biting cold snowy days when in the thick of it with them .
I remember discussing it with my wife . Anything born with the temp over 4 degrees could be left alone. Under that they may need brought in , or given colostrum to warm them up.
This is all outdoors , at 800 ft .
Will be repeating again this year !
I had a couple of biting cold snowy days when in the thick of it with them .
I remember discussing it with my wife . Anything born with the temp over 4 degrees could be left alone. Under that they may need brought in , or given colostrum to warm them up.
This is all outdoors , at 800 ft .
Will be repeating again this year !
We lamb our Charmoise outside at easter, 750 feet next to the sea (so windy and often wet) any lamb that needs help to survive is culled, birth coat is recorded and is increasing year on year. We are forage only signet recording etc etc all that stuff. It doesn't happen over night but I am reasonably pleased with the way things have been going.
- Location
- North Yorkshire
- Location
- Montgomeryshire
I think if they are quick to find a teat themselves, lambs are off to a good start and will stand most things. However, having used Charmoise on my hoggs for a couple of years, I saw no difference in that regard compared to lambs b6 Charollais, Lleyn, Highlander, Beltex and (some) NZ Texels. They were all searching for the teat in minutes, while they were still trying to stand up.
Personally (lambing outside) I didn’t find them any hardier than any of those breeds, and less so when it was particularly rough. I understand that I may well have ‘bad’ ones for my (thankfully) limited trial, but every one I know locally that’s using them on hoggs are selling them at 34-36kg, or they quickly go to fat class 4.
A Beltex is every bit as easy lambing and hardy and, whilst the lambs also grow at a similar snail’s pace, they will generally get to 38-40kg or so before they start laying down those fat levels, and give a far better confirmation lamb at those weights. Either breed could be kept round to the following Spring to make a perfectly acceptable Hogg, but the Beltex will still be a few strides in front when it comes to confirmation grades ime.
I would suggest the admittedly higher depreciation rate on the Beltex rams will easily be costing you a pound a lamb extra over his lifetime, but you’ll make several pound a lamb more in output from sale value.
I use Beltex over my hoggs these days and a Charmoise won’t be coming here again. Each to their own though. The only way to really compare is to try one alongside your existing tups, then decide on the results, on your farm & system.
I like my charmoise. They are a good fit for ewe lambs as I'm sure a beltex would be if you could find a good one. I've never tried a beltex on my own ewe lambs for outdoor lambing though would be a bit worried about the size of the head but know plenty of others get along fine.
They are very lively little lambs at birth can't really say anything others haven't already said there.
They are softer than the lleyn lambs that would be born at the same time as them there isn't any denying that. But once they have a bellyful of milk they're fine I find much like any other pink faced continental breed really.
Mine tend to have finished between 37 and 42kg for entire ram lambs and ewe lambs would be 36-39kg. They finish very easily.
I think it will depend on what your priorities are. I'd prefer not to have to pull lambs, or at least pull less, so I don't disturb the ewe lambs while they are lambing so I chose a charmoise over a beltex. I have never seen a functional mobile beltex either but I do believe they exist if you could find one.
@MRT is also a first class honest breeder that stands by his stock too. I like the very much commercially minded direction he is taking the breed so will stick with him and his sheep. I've chosen the breeder as much if not more than the sheep to be honest.
They are very lively little lambs at birth can't really say anything others haven't already said there.
They are softer than the lleyn lambs that would be born at the same time as them there isn't any denying that. But once they have a bellyful of milk they're fine I find much like any other pink faced continental breed really.
Mine tend to have finished between 37 and 42kg for entire ram lambs and ewe lambs would be 36-39kg. They finish very easily.
I think it will depend on what your priorities are. I'd prefer not to have to pull lambs, or at least pull less, so I don't disturb the ewe lambs while they are lambing so I chose a charmoise over a beltex. I have never seen a functional mobile beltex either but I do believe they exist if you could find one.
@MRT is also a first class honest breeder that stands by his stock too. I like the very much commercially minded direction he is taking the breed so will stick with him and his sheep. I've chosen the breeder as much if not more than the sheep to be honest.
pgk
Member
- Location
- south warwickshire
This is our experience, we tried a grass fed charollais across texel ewe lambs and a few old easy care ewes this spring, lambed outside April May, lambs just got on with it same as as pure shedders and texels. Might be different if we lambed in February. Key we find is to run them on forage having just about given up on hard feed save some whole oats and shreds for shearling rams for 6 weeks before sales. Difficulty is getting potential buyers to read ebv's and accept that our rams are smaller as not stuffed full of hard feed. Dont advertise shedders as we get enough return and recommended buyers, hopefully we can do same with texels over next few years. Only downside is buyers dont need as many of grass fed tups as more active and live longer!
I think there are, but I don't know them! Sorry
Out of interest are those local to you using same charmoise blood lines? I tried a couple 20 months ago through the forum, with no research just always like a change and learn a bit one way or the other. Every tup seller has rams that produce the quickest to suck, up on their feet, covers the most ewes etc. but whilst i hated the sight of the rams, waited to hate the progeny , i have come to love them. This year i overcame last years reservations that the tups were not big enough to cover my strong hoggs. Used the 2 charmoise with one charolais ram that you would know the breeding of, charmoise would be 4t and the charolais im guessing full mouth . Put 3 rams to 200, must have had 150 charmoise sired lambs, quite clear the difference. Normally lose a fair few half of twins, which is not a disaster for me as prefer hoggs to rear singles, but whilst a perfect weather lambing season i couldnt lose a charmoise lamb, lambed 6 hoggs from 550, 2 from beltex 4 from charolais. I can get them to 40/42 kilo at 14/15 weeks off hoggs with no creep, young pastures grazed rotationally, admit i doubt if you want heavy hoggs they wouldnt shift further from there but why would you want to? No creep lambs hitting 4 off a hogg is a dream, or nightmare!! As all these breed threads, theres good bad and ugly , must have got lucky with first gamble
- Location
- Montgomeryshire
The ones I had weren’t from anywhere local to here (nearer to you in fact). All the breeders most local to me have accused, pretty well every other breeder local to me, of crossing various breeds in. I found the backstabbing quite amusing at the time.? Having met @MRT a few times, I would have more confidence in his integrity than most of those closer to home. I doubt he has a Berrichon tup.?
I should think you were very pleased with that performance, and with the low assistance rate on all of them. You also did well to get them to those weights too, even their biggest fans locally reckon on selling at 35-36kg or they get into 3H & 4’s for fat. That would be out of hoggs of smaller breeds though, and seem happy enough with that.
@MRT has some new french bloodlines that get to heavier weights quote quickly without getting overfat. But the French lines I find aren't as hardy at birth as the older breeding ones he has. When he gets the 2 lines crossed and throwing the best of both worlds it will be a very good sheep. I know he has made progress on that front like I said earlier pick the breeder not the breed.
.might be one in Tipperary? Defently a good breeder in co Tyrone and one in Co antrim.