Health and safety zzzzz

[bitwrx]

@bitwr, hope you told the contractors staff to get it fixed before they started work.

The liability rests with the occupier of the property (your parents) should their be an accident

Personally, I'd be looking for another contractor

Yep. Asked them nicely to turn off the tractor immediately then explained very clearly that it was not acceptable. It was BH Mon around lunch time, so no way to get it sorted and still get any meaningful work done (their yard is an hour away), so hopefully the boss losing half a day's revenue made him think a bit.

I work for a big company, 50k employees globally. I have a card on my desk from our CEO saying that I have his personal authority to stop any work if I don't think it's safe. Everyone has that card. I only hope the guys who work for my dad a) are knowledgeable enough to know what's not safe; and b) know that they have the very same authority. Clearly the guys on for the contractor were short of at least one of those things.

Now I've calmed down a bit and read the thread, I see a few mentions of culture. The industry I work in is the safest in the world; the main component of that is culture. It's the hardest bit to get right. In my industry there is one major player (in the UK), and plenty of big companies that support them. That company has the right safety culture, and they pretty much call the shots. So now everyone has the same safety culture.

In farming, I'm not sure how l with such a disparate structure we can get the same positive culture going. Hopefully the two lads who I challenged will take something positive from this, and pass it on to another farm.

 

[Cab-over Pete]

We should take it seriously.

My lad is getting interested in stuff and I’m trying to show him safe ways of doing things, but we went to a farm the other day and there was a bit of tractor stuff going on in the yard. I’m not perfect but in twenty minutes we must have seen at least half a dozen things that could have down the chaps some serious harm.

I’m wondering if I want him working at places like that.

 

[How much]

just be careful with the banks proposed health and safety contractor the main reason the bank is introducing them to you is they get a commission.
From experience with peninsula pushed by our bank they often have long 1 year plus cancellation clauses in there contract , Also now most you upload the info ---- risk assessments , cosh info etc etc to there website , and once you cancel your contract you dont get access to that , you can usually print it out also as you go but just beware !!! you don't want to do it twice
The good thing about any health and safety contractor is that there looming appointment date once or twice a year focuses you on getting the appointed work done before there visit, but in reality you are responsible for the work they will advise you but in all honesty you know your processes better than them so you are the best person to make the policy.

 

[The Ruminant]

He may have been right though. We are heavily into H & S due to taking on an apprentice a year or two ago. Whilst most of it is very worthwhile you do find the odd tradesman who will milk it, as 'elf 'n safety can be an excuse to exploit. We had a fire extinguisher guy who wanted a load of extinguishers replaced due to a bit of surface rust (of course he was to supply the new ones).
I'm all for safety, but not gold plated anal.

You’re right to be wary. However, in this case the company doing the inspection has absolutely no involvement in the repair work. It makes no difference to them whether they find zero faults or 100, they will still earn their fee. All they are tasked with is finding all the faults that exist.

 

[The Ruminant]

Can you clarify,..your machines insured through NFU and NFU pay for the testing at no cost to you?

Seems to food to be true. I had them telling me I had to get brand new front loader tested when only a few weeks old and they certainly were not paying for it.

Not having a dig, I'm genuinely interested to see if I've misunderstood what your saying.

You’ve understood correctly. We insure through NFU Mutual and they pay for the inspection (by a company called Vulcan).

If you think about it, it makes sense. They’re significantly reducing the risk of a personal injury claim for the sake of a few hundred pounds each year. I’ve also no doubt that the cost of it is built into our premium somewhere too, though we do shop around every few years to check they’re in the ballpark with their premiums.

They check the forklifts that are used for the man-cage every six months (inc the cage), other forklifts once a year and compressors either once a year or every 5 years (can’t remember which!)

We get a list of things that must be done within 14 days and another list of things that ought to be done but don’t pose a serious risk to health. It gives peace of mind.

 

[Kidds]

I have heard a lot of things about Vulcan and none of them good. Most comments seem to be that the tests they carry out are meaningless and not likely to make things safer. I guess you have the paperwork in order if something does go wrong.

 

[Happy]

I was speaking to someone from an ag parts business yesterday and he said were being fobbed off with the fire extinguisher set up. He reckons in the small print it says the extinguishers must be checked by someone the business owner/management deem ‘competent’. He thinks I can deem myself competent as long as I keep a written check of the extinguishers and buy new ones as needed. So no need to be paying 100’s for someone to come and write on the stamp on them

Definitely be checking that out with insurance company rather than taking rep from Ag parts businesses word for it on that.
So long as you aren’t with Chubb or Nu-Swift servicing & replacements are cheap. My guy charges £5/extinguisher year and provides annual certificate of maintenance which I’d imagine is the type of thing insurers would want to see if unfortunate enough to have a major fire claim.

 

[RAW24]

We don’t insure with the NFU but use their NFU Risk Management service and would really recommend it. The guy who visited gave a common sense easily achievable approach to things. They visited, suggested improvements, offered advice, produced some risk assessments, etc. Much of it you are probably doing but need to document it. Well worth the money.

 

[bitwrx]

The problem with my set up is I do nearly everything and think I’m fairly safety aware. It’s the other partner who might try and operate a machine when needed who isn’t as aware or on the ball. I keep everything up to scratch in terms of guards etc but like o say others potentially won’t even get the basics right on the same premises. Then seasonal help just opens the door to all sorts of issues which I do my best to avoid but the potential for an incident is always there. You can’t do it all yourself at some times of the year

I think you're right about temporary workers. We all know the (mostly harmless) havoc that harvest students cause - been there, done that. Doesn't take much for a simple bit of inexperience to become a tragedy.

Fwiw, my thoughts are that it's up to the manager to lead the way. Set the right example in the way you work, and what you ask people to do, and the rest will follow.
Having spent 5 years working in some senses as a safety professional, I think I'm fairly well equipped to do that. If I'd been farming since I left uni a decade ago, I don't think I'd be anywhere near.

To spread the knowledge (and/or patronise you all) I'm going to share some of my tools with you. Take them as you will.

Fundamentally, injuries result from errors. Errors also have other negative consequences - too much active on your crops, not enough cake for the high yielders - so it's generally good to prevent errors. Doing a job safely is the same as doing it well.
Start at the beginning - pre-job brief.

Its a graded approach; higher risk, more detailed brief.
When you're working alone on a job you've done a million times before, just mentally go through the job before you start. Even speak it out loud; the cattle won't mind.
The summer student doing a job for the first time, is going to require some written instructions and a good, open two-way conversation before she starts.
In any case make a note of anything that went well, or badly during the job. Use that as the basis of the brief next time.
In my job it's always worth bearing in mind the 5 key questions:

Probably overkill for a lot of stuff that is fairly routine, and I'm not sure it all readily applies to farming, but the one I always consider are the error precursors (under qu 3)

Sound familiar, now you look at the list? Managers and staff alike need to recognise when these are present, and find some way of mitigating the effects.

We use 'human performance tools', 10 of them.

Not all of them apply to all industries all of the time, but some do. If there's something that fits better, add it to the list.

When you're actually at the job, take some time out to look around.

The last one is most important. It's always the unexpected that catches you out - the cow with calf at foot now, but she didn't last week; the silage pit with a collapsed wall now that was fine last year.

Finally, have some rules. I don't have ours from work to hand, but it's just sensible stuff like: never stand under a suspended load; always turn up for work fit for duty.

I guess it's different for all farms, but on our place, we have at least one hard rule: all machinery must be adequately guarded.

All this takes time, and costs money (in the short term). Just remember to ask yourself: what's the worst that can happen? Is there anything I can reasonably do to prevent it?

 

[theboytheboy]

You’ve understood correctly. We insure through NFU Mutual and they pay for the inspection (by a company called Vulcan).

If you think about it, it makes sense. They’re significantly reducing the risk of a personal injury claim for the sake of a few hundred pounds each year. I’ve also no doubt that the cost of it is built into our premium somewhere too, though we do shop around every few years to check they’re in the ballpark with their premiums.

They check the forklifts that are used for the man-cage every six months (inc the cage), other forklifts once a year and compressors either once a year or every 5 years (can’t remember which!)

We get a list of things that must be done within 14 days and another list of things that ought to be done but don’t pose a serious risk to health. It gives peace of mind.

Thanks for clarifying.