Help to dispel a few myths

[asheilio]

Hi all,

My first post here. I'm hoping you might be able to assist me in dispelling a few myths that have crept up in conversations with some of my peers. I’m quite happy to be wrong in my assumptions and opinions. I also welcome any constructive suggestions, however please don’t overly criticise the opinions of others that I am sharing as these people hold valid justification for their opinions and in all honesty are much better farmers than I will ever be, and I hold their expertise and judgement highly in many aspects of farming.

Myth 1 [Grass is too-short to make silage]

I measure the grass from the base of the sward (the ground) to the tip of the highest leaf. The grass cover on the fields can often vary and so I use my judgement to consider the average, often erring on the side of caution.
The grass in our silage field reaches in excess of 12cm and/or the plants are clearly at the three leaf stage with even a few plants starting to send up seed heads. I would consider this the ideal time to cut for first-cut, high DMD silage.

I am being told the following:​

• that the grass is too short and would wilt to nothing.
• that the grass will not get picked up by the tedder
• the aftergrass will be blighted with patches of rotting grass because it was not picked up by the tedder
• farmers who get high dmd silage have a better fertility status on the fields and thus the three leaf stage occurs at increased lengths 18cm-20cm for them.

Myth 2: [Proper stockproof fencing will not separate ewes during weaning]

We have a high worm burden with our lambs (this year especially high). Forcing the lambs to graze down to 3.5cm-4.5cm to maintain sward quality negatively burdens them with worms.
At weaning my aim is to place the weaned ewes in the field behind the lambs and force them (ewes) to clean out the sward down to ~4cm. This I hope will reduce the worm burden and boost the performance of the lambs who will only be required to graze down to ~6cm. Ideally the ewes behind the lambs would not be related (however cannot guarantee this) and instead be from a different grouping. To help break the bond between lamb and ewe more, creep gates would have been used straight after lambing allowing the lambs access to the next field in the rotation. (Creep gates removed after weaning)

I am being told the following:​

• Lambs and ewes will still break into each other no matter how stock-proof the fence.
• Doesn’t matter who owns the lamb, the ewe will still break in and search the field.
• Even if the ewes have been successfully weaned, the prospect of fresh grass over the wire is too great and they will eventually break through!

Myth 3: [outdoor lambing]

We have an indoor lambing flock which we assist (in some way to lamb) over 50% of them. (Possibly higher as this is anecdotal) for me the operation is far too labour intensive. I would like to see a switch to outdoor lambing where assistance is minimal. Initially just letting out 2 weeks prior to lambing onto saved, sheltered fields.

I am being told the following:​

• The lambs wont survive being born in a wet, cold and windy night. (from south Ireland btw)
• Wont be able to catch a ewe in trouble?
• Wont be able to catch the lambs to tag and tail them.

Thanks for reading. Do you agree with these 'myths' or not? I expect there to be some truth to them but not to the extent that it will prevent me pushing the sheep enterprise forward in the direction I believe it needs to go. Please reply numbering your responses 1-3

Kind regards,
Asheilio

 

[It was already broken.]

Wow!!!
1 - Not a clue
2 - Properly erected stock fencing is pretty much stockproof, the clue is in the name
3 - Depends

 

[multi power]

Number one and two you are correct, three I don't know enough about sheep to say for sure

 

[Nearly]

1 beware of high nitrogen levels in very lush crops when cutting for silage - produces silage less palatable silage high in ammonia. Your 'advisor' probably wanting to make sure all N converted to protein. 'N use' used to be calculated at 2 units per day in the 'olden days'

2 used to be called a 'leader and follower grazing system'. But the buggers will stick their heads through the wires of netting after weaning.

3 Give them shelter in the field, catch them with the quad and ring them when you can, or round them up later? Walk the unlambed sheep from one field into another each morning and deal with what's left. If they aren't messed with they barely need numbering?
You will have to accept more losses though.

All the above from a cow farmer who worked on a sheep farm 30 years ago.

If you've got sheep sheds then why aim to lamb outside? Might have to be strict with yourself and not have a (late) night shift?

 

[Man_in_black]

Number 3.

I'd agree assisting over 50% is a lot imo.

I'll break number 3 into points based on my first experience of lambing outdoors this year (and I'll be lambing out again this year, clue there).

• Breed & time of year. These are two biggest factors in outdoor lambing decision. What ewes & what tup used?
• If she's in that much trouble you'll be able to catch her.
• I tailed & castrated all lambs within couple hours of popping out, no bother at all. First time ewes I carried 3 wooden hurdles in truck made make shift pen against fence to make sure drinking/stripped ewe buy other than that left them to it.

My outdoor lambers were all charmoise sired. End March. Plenty were born in driving rain but literally jumped immediately onto feet and just on it.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

It's all a load of crap

 

[exmoor dave]

Hi all,

My first post here. I'm hoping you might be able to assist me in dispelling a few myths that have crept up in conversations with some of my peers. I’m quite happy to be wrong in my assumptions and opinions. I also welcome any constructive suggestions, however please don’t overly criticise the opinions of others that I am sharing as these people hold valid justification for their opinions and in all honesty are much better farmers than I will ever be, and I hold their expertise and judgement highly in many aspects of farming.

Myth 1 [Grass is too-short to make silage]

I measure the grass from the base of the sward (the ground) to the tip of the highest leaf. The grass cover on the fields can often vary and so I use my judgement to consider the average, often erring on the side of caution.
The grass in our silage field reaches in excess of 12cm and/or the plants are clearly at the three leaf stage with even a few plants starting to send up seed heads. I would consider this the ideal time to cut for first-cut, high DMD silage.

I am being told the following:​

• that the grass is too short and would wilt to nothing.
• that the grass will not get picked up by the tedder
• the aftergrass will be blighted with patches of rotting grass because it was not picked up by the tedder
• farmers who get high dmd silage have a better fertility status on the fields and thus the three leaf stage occurs at increased lengths 18cm-20cm for them.

Myth 2: [Proper stockproof fencing will not separate ewes during weaning]

We have a high worm burden with our lambs (this year especially high). Forcing the lambs to graze down to 3.5cm-4.5cm to maintain sward quality negatively burdens them with worms.
At weaning my aim is to place the weaned ewes in the field behind the lambs and force them (ewes) to clean out the sward down to ~4cm. This I hope will reduce the worm burden and boost the performance of the lambs who will only be required to graze down to ~6cm. Ideally the ewes behind the lambs would not be related (however cannot guarantee this) and instead be from a different grouping. To help break the bond between lamb and ewe more, creep gates would have been used straight after lambing allowing the lambs access to the next field in the rotation. (Creep gates removed after weaning)

I am being told the following:​

• Lambs and ewes will still break into each other no matter how stock-proof the fence.
• Doesn’t matter who owns the lamb, the ewe will still break in and search the field.
• Even if the ewes have been successfully weaned, the prospect of fresh grass over the wire is too great and they will eventually break through!

Myth 3: [outdoor lambing]

We have an indoor lambing flock which we assist (in some way to lamb) over 50% of them. (Possibly higher as this is anecdotal) for me the operation is far too labour intensive. I would like to see a switch to outdoor lambing where assistance is minimal. Initially just letting out 2 weeks prior to lambing onto saved, sheltered fields.

I am being told the following:​

• The lambs wont survive being born in a wet, cold and windy night. (from south Ireland btw)
• Wont be able to catch a ewe in trouble?
• Wont be able to catch the lambs to tag and tail them.

Thanks for reading. Do you agree with these 'myths' or not? I expect there to be some truth to them but not to the extent that it will prevent me pushing the sheep enterprise forward in the direction I believe it needs to go. Please reply numbering your responses 1-3

Kind regards,
Asheilio

1-3
You know my dad to??

 

[Joe]

Hi all,

My first post here. I'm hoping you might be able to assist me in dispelling a few myths that have crept up in conversations with some of my peers. I’m quite happy to be wrong in my assumptions and opinions. I also welcome any constructive suggestions, however please don’t overly criticise the opinions of others that I am sharing as these people hold valid justification for their opinions and in all honesty are much better farmers than I will ever be, and I hold their expertise and judgement highly in many aspects of farming.

Myth 1 [Grass is too-short to make silage]

I measure the grass from the base of the sward (the ground) to the tip of the highest leaf. The grass cover on the fields can often vary and so I use my judgement to consider the average, often erring on the side of caution.
The grass in our silage field reaches in excess of 12cm and/or the plants are clearly at the three leaf stage with even a few plants starting to send up seed heads. I would consider this the ideal time to cut for first-cut, high DMD silage.

I am being told the following:​

• that the grass is too short and would wilt to nothing.
• that the grass will not get picked up by the tedder
• the aftergrass will be blighted with patches of rotting grass because it was not picked up by the tedder
• farmers who get high dmd silage have a better fertility status on the fields and thus the three leaf stage occurs at increased lengths 18cm-20cm for them.

Myth 2: [Proper stockproof fencing will not separate ewes during weaning]

We have a high worm burden with our lambs (this year especially high). Forcing the lambs to graze down to 3.5cm-4.5cm to maintain sward quality negatively burdens them with worms.
At weaning my aim is to place the weaned ewes in the field behind the lambs and force them (ewes) to clean out the sward down to ~4cm. This I hope will reduce the worm burden and boost the performance of the lambs who will only be required to graze down to ~6cm. Ideally the ewes behind the lambs would not be related (however cannot guarantee this) and instead be from a different grouping. To help break the bond between lamb and ewe more, creep gates would have been used straight after lambing allowing the lambs access to the next field in the rotation. (Creep gates removed after weaning)

I am being told the following:​

• Lambs and ewes will still break into each other no matter how stock-proof the fence.
• Doesn’t matter who owns the lamb, the ewe will still break in and search the field.
• Even if the ewes have been successfully weaned, the prospect of fresh grass over the wire is too great and they will eventually break through!

Myth 3: [outdoor lambing]

We have an indoor lambing flock which we assist (in some way to lamb) over 50% of them. (Possibly higher as this is anecdotal) for me the operation is far too labour intensive. I would like to see a switch to outdoor lambing where assistance is minimal. Initially just letting out 2 weeks prior to lambing onto saved, sheltered fields.

I am being told the following:​

• The lambs wont survive being born in a wet, cold and windy night. (from south Ireland btw)
• Wont be able to catch a ewe in trouble?
• Wont be able to catch the lambs to tag and tail them.

Thanks for reading. Do you agree with these 'myths' or not? I expect there to be some truth to them but not to the extent that it will prevent me pushing the sheep enterprise forward in the direction I believe it needs to go. Please reply numbering your responses 1-3

Kind regards,
Asheilio

3 depends on set-up really. Where abouts are you and what time of the year lambing?
Medium (well for ireland) outdoor lambing flock here more than welcome see it in action at lambing time

 

[The Ruminant]

It's all a load of crap

The most unhelpful post ever.
Is it the OP's own ideas that are crap? Is it his 'adviser's' ideas that are crap. Is it the posts of every contributor to the thread so far that are a load of crap? Is TFF a load of crap?

 

[baabaa]

Hi all,

My first post here. I'm hoping you might be able to assist me in dispelling a few myths that have crept up in conversations with some of my peers. I’m quite happy to be wrong in my assumptions and opinions. I also welcome any constructive suggestions, however please don’t overly criticise the opinions of others that I am sharing as these people hold valid justification for their opinions and in all honesty are much better farmers than I will ever be, and I hold their expertise and judgement highly in many aspects of farming.

Myth 1 [Grass is too-short to make silage]

I measure the grass from the base of the sward (the ground) to the tip of the highest leaf. The grass cover on the fields can often vary and so I use my judgement to consider the average, often erring on the side of caution.
The grass in our silage field reaches in excess of 12cm and/or the plants are clearly at the three leaf stage with even a few plants starting to send up seed heads. I would consider this the ideal time to cut for first-cut, high DMD silage.

I am being told the following:​

• that the grass is too short and would wilt to nothing.
• that the grass will not get picked up by the tedder
• the aftergrass will be blighted with patches of rotting grass because it was not picked up by the tedder
• farmers who get high dmd silage have a better fertility status on the fields and thus the three leaf stage occurs at increased lengths 18cm-20cm for them.

Myth 2: [Proper stockproof fencing will not separate ewes during weaning]

We have a high worm burden with our lambs (this year especially high). Forcing the lambs to graze down to 3.5cm-4.5cm to maintain sward quality negatively burdens them with worms.
At weaning my aim is to place the weaned ewes in the field behind the lambs and force them (ewes) to clean out the sward down to ~4cm. This I hope will reduce the worm burden and boost the performance of the lambs who will only be required to graze down to ~6cm. Ideally the ewes behind the lambs would not be related (however cannot guarantee this) and instead be from a different grouping. To help break the bond between lamb and ewe more, creep gates would have been used straight after lambing allowing the lambs access to the next field in the rotation. (Creep gates removed after weaning)

I am being told the following:​

• Lambs and ewes will still break into each other no matter how stock-proof the fence.
• Doesn’t matter who owns the lamb, the ewe will still break in and search the field.
• Even if the ewes have been successfully weaned, the prospect of fresh grass over the wire is too great and they will eventually break through!

Myth 3: [outdoor lambing]

We have an indoor lambing flock which we assist (in some way to lamb) over 50% of them. (Possibly higher as this is anecdotal) for me the operation is far too labour intensive. I would like to see a switch to outdoor lambing where assistance is minimal. Initially just letting out 2 weeks prior to lambing onto saved, sheltered fields.

I am being told the following:​

• The lambs wont survive being born in a wet, cold and windy night. (from south Ireland btw)
• Wont be able to catch a ewe in trouble?
• Wont be able to catch the lambs to tag and tail them.

Thanks for reading. Do you agree with these 'myths' or not? I expect there to be some truth to them but not to the extent that it will prevent me pushing the sheep enterprise forward in the direction I believe it needs to go. Please reply numbering your responses 1-3

Kind regards,
Asheilio

what sort of sheep have you got?
some are a lot more amenable to outdoor lambing than others

 

[Dodge777]

1- i dont know enough about this to comment.
2- if it if properly fenced then they will be fine.
3- the breed of sheep is the most important thing where lambing outside is concerned.

 

[rc mx110]

1. is nonsensce
2. they're sheep no matter how good 1 or 2 will be in the wrong place
3. lambs will survive in wet (driving rain and big wind will make fresh lambs hypertheric)
you will catch even the maddest ewe. use yer head.
we don't tag at birth or tail at all. but a good way to catch a fresh lamb is drive at it with quad, it gets confused and will run at quad. be quick incase ewe legs it tho

 

[roscoe erf]

1. is nonsensce
2. they're sheep no matter how good 1 or 2 will be in the wrong place
3. lambs will survive in wet (driving rain and big wind will make fresh lambs hypertheric)
you will catch even the maddest ewe. use yer head.
we don't tag at birth or tail at all. but a good way to catch a fresh lamb is drive at it with quad, it gets confused and will run at quad. be quick incase ewe legs it tho

Be easier to use your hands

 

[jade35]

Be easier to use your hands

But it does explain the 'war wounds'

 

[buffalo_soldier]

1. You're right.
2. A stockproof fence is stockproof.
3. Used to lamb twins outside and lamb singles and trips inside. Need a field with multiple shelter spots ideally.

 

[spin cycle]

my guess on number three is what is important?....if you're limited on the number you can keep then you want lowest losses so housing perhaps best?....if you've the ground then it must be more efficient as you can have a lot of ewes/labour unit...you accept the losses as overall you're getting more lambs per labour unit...ewes that loose their lambs can go away cull at the best time of year to market and you get to sleep because after dark you can't do anything about it....you've gotta be a tough customer to do it though i reckon

the right kinda sheep must be vital

 

[roscoe erf]

the right kinda sheep must be vital

And that's a whole nother thread

 

[spin cycle]

And that's a whole nother thread

save it til the clocks go back

 

[roscoe erf]

save it til the clocks go back

I've kept the payments up this year

 

[willie waver]

myth 1

grass is never too short to make silage, but if its too light it becomes uneconomic to make it