Hoeing

[Clive]

how much yield does blackgrass take ?

looking from the outside in here I have seen doom and gloom threads like this for the last 3 years followed at harvest by record wheat yield threads from many of the same posters ?

if it' really becoming such a massive problem why are national yields not collapsing on the back of that ?

 

[Will7]

how much yield does blackgrass take ?

looking from the outside in here I have seen doom and gloom threads like this for the last 3 years followed at harvest by record wheat yield threads from many of the same posters ?

if it' really becoming such a massive problem why are national yields not collapsing on the back of that ?

In worst cases 80%

 

[Andrew K]

I think the quantum leap into spring cropping leaves us very susceptible to spring/early summer drought, I forecast that wheat yields will plateau nationally once this scenario is taken fully into account.
Most arable farms are at the tipping point where they have/need to look at other options than pour money into Bg infested land. We have increased fallow here over last year and dropped OSR for the time being.

 

[ajd132]

how much yield does blackgrass take ?

looking from the outside in here I have seen doom and gloom threads like this for the last 3 years followed at harvest by record wheat yield threads from many of the same posters ?

if it' really becoming such a massive problem why are national yields not collapsing on the back of that ?

I think we have to accept that we will have dirty fields. To a certain extent a field can look bad but the yield isn't affected. I think @shakerator was talking about this a few weeks ago.

On another note I saw some hoeing today again and was very impressed.

 

[shakerator]

how much yield does blackgrass take ?

looking from the outside in here I have seen doom and gloom threads like this for the last 3 years followed at harvest by record wheat yield threads from many of the same posters ?

if it' really becoming such a massive problem why are national yields not collapsing on the back of that ?

My first year on the farm combined heaviest fields next to river at 2.5t/ha. The light end was 10+

However I had a couple of "laughing stock" fields in 2014 that looked awful from the road (I knew they were ok but field dead flat !) and got 11t/ha so you can't always judge driving by!

For me I'd rather not spend anything and look messy, rather than a fortune and get false security of low level BG below crop, because you can't come back in with a cereal in either case.....and I bet BG levels in the break crop don't vary that much between huge seed return and moderate seed return following kerb centurion glypho etc (all prob in tens of thousands per square metre anyway) it's the last 20 plants per SQm that take the killing

 

[Feldspar]

how much yield does blackgrass take ?

looking from the outside in here I have seen doom and gloom threads like this for the last 3 years followed at harvest by record wheat yield threads from many of the same posters ?

if it' really becoming such a massive problem why are national yields not collapsing on the back of that ?

Last couple of years have seen good pre-em activity due to wet autumns / winters generally. Two or three years of good control doesn't make the problem go away. Worst fields show what could happen if you stick your head in the ground.

 

[The_Swede]

To my mind the weed surfer is at least as important as the hoe in John Pawseys system.

All credit to him but level of input there is not to be underestimated - watching the videos it becomes apparent that some crops are harrowed, hoed and weed surfed multiple times, potentially six passes post drilling!

Factor in good ploughing after long grass breaks and inherently reduced soluble nutrient levels, you can start to see where the excellent level of BG control comes from.

 

[mikep]

Why a hoe and not band spraying with diquat?
The main problem is that modern wheats are uncompetitive compared to older types. I have some heritage varieties and they are a real eye opener. They have huge roots and tiller and grow like you would not believe, they get disease but not enough to worry them and work better than oats or barley at smothering weeds. They will shade out most weeds but the yield is low so they are not really a runner yet.
The trick will be to not mine the genes for short term gain by utilise them in a system where their benefits can be realised.

 

[Feldspar]

Why a hoe and not band spraying with diquat?
The main problem is that modern wheats are uncompetitive compared to older types. I have some heritage varieties and they are a real eye opener. They have huge roots and tiller and grow like you would not believe, they get disease but not enough to worry them and work better than oats or barley at smothering weeds. They will shade out most weeds but the yield is low so they are not really a runner yet.
The trick will be to not mine the genes for short term gain by utilise them in a system where their benefits can be realised.

Diquat has been banned.

 

[Tractor Boy]

Diquat has been banned.

Has it? I used some last harvest to dessicate beans. When did it go?

 

[Feldspar]

Has it? I used some last harvest to dessicate beans. When did it go?

Actually I think I'm wrong.

http://www.fwi.co.uk/news/diquat-ban-could-strike-huge-blow-to-potato-industry.htm

 

[mikep]

Diquat has been banned.

Since when?

 

[Feldspar]

Since when?

See above. Think I misremembered a news article.

 

[mikep]

See above. Think I misremembered a news article.

Thank God other people have senior moments as well

 

[Flat 10]

Why a hoe and not band spraying with diquat?
The main problem is that modern wheats are uncompetitive compared to older types. I have some heritage varieties and they are a real eye opener. They have huge roots and tiller and grow like you would not believe, they get disease but not enough to worry them and work better than oats or barley at smothering weeds. They will shade out most weeds but the yield is low so they are not really a runner yet.
The trick will be to not mine the genes for short term gain by utilise them in a system where their benefits can be realised.

I like the idea of vigorous wheats! However where I've seen band spraying in beet I don't think its a lot better than hoeing. In fact worse probably.

 

[ajd132]

Just an update. I've been to see numerous hoes working in organic and conventional systems and am absolutely convinced by the benefits in lots of different crops. They have been doing a seriously good job some better than others.
We have to get real as the chemical situation can only get worse. Hoeing could be a low cost and quite useful part of a blackgrass regime.

 

[Tractor Boy]

Just an update. I've been to see numerous hoes working in organic and conventional systems and am absolutely convinced by the benefits in lots of different crops. They have been doing a seriously good job some better than others.
We have to get real as the chemical situation can only get worse. Hoeing could be a low cost and quite useful part of a blackgrass regime.

The problem I can see is the wide rows. The lowest disturbance drills sow very narrow rows quite close together, going for wider rows really means you need a banded row which is more disturbance in the first place. Is it a bit chicken and egg?

 

[Clive]

The problem I can see is the wide rows. The lowest disturbance drills sow very narrow rows quite close together, going for wider rows really means you need a banded row which is more disturbance in the first place. Is it a bit chicken and egg?

I actually think 10" rows could beneficial, will be interning to compare wheat drilled with out Co on 10" against 750 crops this Autumn

 

[ajd132]

I'm wider rows anyway. The whole ULD doesn't disturb blackgrass isn't really true if you already have loads of blackgrass that's shed on the surface, the stuff just grows whatever. My tone spacing is about 30cm and have got 2.5inch Dutch coulters to go on. Keep it thicker in band to crowd any BG out then hoe out inbetween.

 

[The_Swede]

What are you thinking in terms of hoe to work on 30cm rows - Einbock, Garford, modified Beet hoe or similar? Steering?