Horse Direct Drilling

[Lazy Sod]

I was listening to Gardener's Question Time on the radio and someone was asking about preserving wildlife whilst tidying up their allotment, as requested by the allotment association.
A panel member stated that he had a friend who farmed 100 Ha in the south of France. He does everything with horses, doesn't plough, drills everything straight into the soil, and his ancient wheat variaties coped with all the weeds. Hence, he had lots of wildlife.

How does he do that @ Clive? A good subject for Direct Driller Magazine haha.

 

[Bury the Trash]

would it be fast enough for him?

 

[Exfarmer]

I was listening to Gardener's Question Time on the radio and someone was asking about preserving wildlife whilst tidying up their allotment, as requested by the allotment association.
A panel member stated that he had a friend who farmed 100 Ha in the south of France. He does everything with horses, doesn't plough, drills everything straight into the soil, and his ancient wheat variaties coped with all the weeds. Hence, he had lots of wildlife.

How does he do that @ Clive? A good subject for Direct Driller Magazine haha.

I think he is somewhere on youtube and it has been mentioned here before. I believe he produces enough on his plot to feed his family and his subsidy covers his living expenses, or thereabouts

 

[Clive]

I was listening to Gardener's Question Time on the radio and someone was asking about preserving wildlife whilst tidying up their allotment, as requested by the allotment association.
A panel member stated that he had a friend who farmed 100 Ha in the south of France. He does everything with horses, doesn't plough, drills everything straight into the soil, and his ancient wheat variaties coped with all the weeds. Hence, he had lots of wildlife.

How does he do that @ Clive? A good subject for Direct Driller Magazine haha.

I guess you could pull a direct drill with a horse ?

would like to learn more - as you say could be a interesting article !

 

[yellowbelly]

would it be fast enough for him?

At that speed, with that drill (3m??), what would he drill?

Say, 10-15 ac/day? (we'd do maybe 15-20 ac on a good day with a 10' Fergie drill and a MF35 - but we'd have been going faster).

For argument's sake we'll call it 12 ac/day.
He'd need at least 4 yockins (that's 4 changes of horses as we call them in Lincolnshire). So he'd need 12 horses (I know 2 of them are Mules) assuming they did two yockins each.

From....
https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/min-hp-for-horsch-sprinter.302020/
...say 50hp/m, so 200hp tractor for a 4m drill to do 120/ac day??

So, 200 'horses' does 10 times what the Amish guy does, so you'd need 120 actual horses/mules to do the same job.

Even allowing a few extra horses to account for the odd lame one and a bit of time off to give birth to replacements, etc this proves that horsepower for horsepower an actual horse can out pull a Fendt by about 1.7 to 1.

I've never rated Fendts much

 

[David.]

The inclination to think these things through does you credit, sir.
Drilling 15ac "big field" in a day with a 135 and MF 728 iron wheels 13 row drill entailed an especially early start, eating dinner going along, and packing up in the dark.

As to the video, if it is ok to use an engine to lift the drill, why not to use an engine to pull it?

 

[Fuzzy]

At that speed, with that drill (3m??), what would he drill?

Say, 10-15 ac/day? (we'd do maybe 15-20 ac on a good day with a 10' Fergie drill and a MF35 - but we'd have been going faster).

For argument's sake we'll call it 12 ac/day.
He'd need at least 4 yockins (that's 4 changes of horses as we call them in Lincolnshire). So he'd need 12 horses (I know 2 of them are Mules) assuming they did two yockins each.

From....
https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/min-hp-for-horsch-sprinter.302020/
...say 50hp/m, so 200hp tractor for a 4m drill to do 120/ac day??

So, 200 'horses' does 10 times what the Amish guy does, so you'd need 120 actual horses/mules to do the same job.

Even allowing a few extra horses to account for the odd lame one and a bit of time off to give birth to replacements, etc this proves that horsepower for horsepower an actual horse can out pull a Fendt by about 1.7 to 1.

I've never rated Fendts much

You also need to mention the saving in fertiliser cost, those 120 horses will deposit quite a bit of organic manure as they drill.

 

[Clive]

At that speed, with that drill (3m??), what would he drill?

Say, 10-15 ac/day? (we'd do maybe 15-20 ac on a good day with a 10' Fergie drill and a MF35 - but we'd have been going faster).

For argument's sake we'll call it 12 ac/day.
He'd need at least 4 yockins (that's 4 changes of horses as we call them in Lincolnshire). So he'd need 12 horses (I know 2 of them are Mules) assuming they did two yockins each.

From....
https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/min-hp-for-horsch-sprinter.302020/
...say 50hp/m, so 200hp tractor for a 4m drill to do 120/ac day??

So, 200 'horses' does 10 times what the Amish guy does, so you'd need 120 actual horses/mules to do the same job.

Even allowing a few extra horses to account for the odd lame one and a bit of time off to give birth to replacements, etc this proves that horsepower for horsepower an actual horse can out pull a Fendt by about 1.7 to 1.

I've never rated Fendts much

I think JD rate the 3m box drill at 120hp

but I take the point about real horse vs engine horses!

 

[sjt01]

Not horses but oxen - nothing new under the sun!

 

[Fuzzy]

Team work

 

[Lazy Sod]

I guess you could pull a direct drill with a horse ?
would like to learn more - as you say could be a interesting article !

The way the panelist was waxing lyrical, I got the impression that the farm would have been organic which means, of course, no Roundup.

People used to refer to organic farming as muck and magic. Must be magic to be able to direct drill organically.

 

[Clive]

The way the panelist was waxing lyrical, I got the impression that the farm would have been organic which means, of course, no Roundup.

People used to refer to organic farming as muck and magic. Must be magic to be able to direct drill organically.

I think organic / no glyphosate no till is possible

I think we will have to find ways to do it without glyphosate pretty soon.

I’m off to agritechnica next week to investigate !

 

[Scholsey]

Team work

I wonder at what point their sky wizard told them they can use a donkey engine to drive the forager but under absolutely no circumstances can they use it to pull anything, must have been quite a forward thinking sky wizard to know combustion engines were even going to be a thing.

 

[Lazy Sod]

I think organic / no glyphosate no till is possible

How would you kill the volunteers and weeds?

 

[Clive]

How would you kill the volunteers and weeds?

various posibilities ranging from regular fast, wider very shallow cultivation (not true no till I know). Through to permanent mulch understory of clover and inter row mowing of wider row spacing

Also going to look at the electro weed killing options at the show

 

[yellowbelly]

As to the video, if it is ok to use an engine to lift the drill, why not to use an engine to pull it?

That occurred to me too - not very consistent in their reasoning, IMHO.

 

[David.]

Not horses but oxen - nothing new under the sun!
View attachment 841900

Should have thought that PETA, BSPCA or whoever the equivalent was, were having something to say about beating the draft animals with a stick...

 

[Red Fred]

According to Wikipedia, the Amish Folks see hard work as one of the greatest blessings and frown on anything that saves labour as it leads to the young farmers having too much time on their hands. This obviously results in them spending too much time looking round Fendt dealerships and browsing the Ooohhh..thread with the obvious results of family fallouts and impared eyesight as proven by the members of TFF.
I seem to remember when visiting the States that inventions made after their church was founded are frowned upon so maybe stationary engines are tolerated while vehicles are not.

 

[Two Tone]

Team work

I believe that for some unknown reason. each Horse is regarded as 13hp.
So that is 104hp pulling the forager.
The biggest problem being the lack of gears on the transmission, I suppose.

Not helped by the deafness to any instructions, caused by the engine that drives it.

 

[Treg]

I think there's someone in Devon that farms with horses & I think maybe linked to that farm in France as they were selling their wheat for quite a premium & having it milled in France. He spent several years working with Amish to learn his trade.
Would be really interesting to get a piece in your magazine with him @Clive .