House of Lords votes to ban lower standard food imports

[kiwi pom]

You have it correct largely.

It is still legal to wash salad (and fruit, IIRC) with dilute chlorine solutions in the UK but there are restrictions on how it is done. I understand the foodstuffs so treated must not contain residues higher than concentrations that would be legal within UK water supplies.

UK food safety laws are understandably strict and people like environmental health are known for not having a sense of humour at all.

If you ask me, given my experience of the food chain from start to finish, I would say the place where the greatest risk to consumers is where it is processed or finally cooked rather than at the primary production end if that makes sense. However, I do understand why the regulations applying to slaughter houses and the like are so strict.

From a food safety point of view, my gut feel is that chlorinated chicken probably presents no health risk to consumers. I do not know what practices are used in Brazilian or Thai poultry products though.

So what do they do differently? Could it be that they do everything to the same standard but also wash with chlorinated water as an extra layer of protection?

Again I've no idea, we seem to have reached the conclusion their standards are lower and they may be, but I haven't seen how.

 

[DrWazzock]

So oilseed rape oil won't be coming in from those European countries that still use neonics. Likewise for sugar. Where would it end?

 

[Highland Mule]

Could it be that they do everything to the same standard but also wash with chlorinated water as an extra layer of protection?

I don’t believe so, based on the research I’ve done, but I don’t have the specifics of what is different/ less sanitary.

 

[kiwi pom]

If we do ban food imports of "lower standards" products (whatever that means) then does it occur to people that we might have to exclude half of the stuff we already import? Who is going to police it and who has the final say on what is or isn't acceptable in their very subjective opinion.
Its a naive, half baked and unworkable crock of a proposal IMO, but something you'd entirely expect from the Lords.

Plus if that stuff comes from countries that you also export to, then they may find a reason not to buy anymore.

 

[ollie989898]

So what do they do differently? Could it be that they do everything to the same standard but also wash with chlorinated water as an extra layer of protection?

Again I've no idea, we seem to have reached the conclusion their standards are lower and they may be, but I haven't seen how.

Chlorinated chicken explained: why do the Americans treat their poultry with chlorine?

The prospect of the UK accepting US chicken treated with chlorine in order to secure a lucrative trade deal has got everyone in a flap. But just what is chlorine chicken? And what's the problem with it?

www.thegrocer.co.uk

This article explains the issue in some detail. The USDA has approved a raft of materials for using as a disinfection agent when preparing poultry prior to it being packaged or shipped or sold. The EU does not approve it. It is simply a protectionist technical barrier and has been the centre of a long running dispute for years. I do not believe it constitutes a health risk to the consumer.

 

[Blaithin]

Most excuses is that chickens in America are kept in less desirable housing so are more likely to be contaminated.

However Canada also allows the use of chlorinated washes for poultry and, if I recall the last time this discussion came up, we have on par to even better density laws for housing poultry than the UK does.

So Canadian chickens have more space per bird, are less likely to be contaminated, yet are still able to be chlorinated.

 

[ollie989898]

So oilseed rape oil won't be coming in from those European countries that still use neonics. Likewise for sugar. Where would it end?

I seriously doubt that, grain from GM crops and the like are still imported out of necessity I suspect and the same will be true of neonics. Of course, European sugar has been a bloody con for years, it's nothing like as efficient compared to cane production anyway and the environmental footprint of beet production must be insane by comparison.

That said, there is an economic case to answer for these things. Vegetable oils are valuable but I don't know how they rank with each other.

In fairness, there is no rule book which says the world should always be able to grow oilseed rape on continent Y, the climate is changing, and pests and disease evolve over time. World agriculture should keep it's options open and keep breeding a variety of different crops.

 

[ollie989898]

Most excuses is that chickens in America are kept in less desirable housing so are more likely to be contaminated.

However Canada also allows the use of chlorinated washes for poultry and, if I recall the last time this discussion came up, we have on par to even better density laws for housing poultry than the UK does.

So Canadian chickens have more space per bird, are less likely to be contaminated, yet are still able to be chlorinated.

The Americans can outline their animal welfare regulations far better than myself and will no doubt be along at some point to point us to the relevant links for these.

The EU ones for intensive poultry are pretty straight forward but the UK has adopted regulations which exceed these by some margin I understand- I will leave the UK poultry produces on this forum to list these in detail as they are quite detailed.

 

[kiwi pom]

Chlorinated chicken explained: why do the Americans treat their poultry with chlorine?

The prospect of the UK accepting US chicken treated with chlorine in order to secure a lucrative trade deal has got everyone in a flap. But just what is chlorine chicken? And what's the problem with it?

www.thegrocer.co.uk

This article explains the issue in some detail. The USDA has approved a raft of materials for using as a disinfection agent when preparing poultry prior to it being packaged or shipped or sold. The EU does not approve it. It is simply a protectionist technical barrier and has been the centre of a long running dispute for years. I do not believe it constitutes a health risk to the consumer.

I get two things from that.
1 not every processor uses the wash.
2 in the controls the US had a lower rate of salmonella, 14% which was reduced to 2% after washing while the EU ran at 15-20%.

What am I missing?

I don't think anyone needs cheaper chicken. I think it's already ridiculous how cheap they are.
As for hygiene, on farms and at processors, I've no idea who's better. My guess is it varies from place to place more than it does country to country.

 

[RushesToo]

That all depends on your particular outlook on life. It could be a huge list of stuff or not much at all. What about clothing? Should we be letting clothing in that's made by kids in sweatshops abroad? While we keep buying such products we effectively perpetuate poor working conditions. If we said we aren't buying anything until you pay them min wage and have same H and S as our workers we would be applying the same standards to imported as home made products. Depends on who is in charge and whose interests are threatened though doesnt it?
My view is let it run freely. Let the customer decide. I don't want somebody slapping restrictions on products we export in a tit for tat escalation because we have slapped restrictions on the importation of their produce. Its a downward spiral or trade war if you like. Why discriminate particularly against the US? We already import loads of stuff from other countries with far lower standards than our own.

This isn't really about agriculture but about what you want your country to be.

"Should we be letting clothing in that's made by kids in sweatshops abroad?"

Well the place I live, the parish, county and country - I don't want this. I want children to be valued and people to try and be better, and not just here.
I want my politicians to uphold the values of the the place I live. I voted, I pay taxes, feel this way and want someone to say it for me.

So I understand what the Lords are questioning and support it.
The trouble is that what I have as fundemental tenets never appear on a manifesto and aren't the same as other peoples so we end up with the Lords just saying "do you want to think about that a little more?"

It is horribly imperfect, but it hopefully does cause people to think, as it did me.

It is not acceptable to say we will willing import any old rubbish - clothes or food.

 

[ollie989898]

I get two things from that.
1 not every processor uses the wash.
2 in the controls the US had a lower rate of salmonella, 14% which was reduced to 2% after washing while the EU ran at 15-20%.

What am I missing?

I don't think anyone needs cheaper chicken. I think it's already ridiculous how cheap they are.
As for hygiene, on farms and at processors, I've no idea who's better. My guess is it varies from place to place more than it does country to country.

The UK tends to have rules which are focused at creating intrinsic food safety which applies at all stages from farm to plate. The dairy farmers here will attest to that. I believe, to some degree, the EU rules are outwardly similar. The argument against using disinfectant products on poultry during processing is that if you use that method (and the UK government has stated it has no intention of allowing the poultry industry here to use it) you could theoretically use it to make up for shortfalls elsewhere in the chain.

It is true that the USA has a far higher incidence of food poisoning when compared to the UK which is a bit scary considering the amount of unpasteurised cheeses and ready to eat foods we consume here.

Ultimately the US poultry industry is fudging huge, not far off double the annual volume of produced by the entire EU combined. Americans also consume a lot more of the stuff per person, too. I think the same is true of beef.

For me personally, I simply intend to eat a lot less meat in future anyway, certainly the intensive stuff is all bilge anyway- it doesn't taste of anything and it's pointless buying it.

EDIT: I suspect that many of the issues discussed on this thread may stem from differences in legislation between the differing states of the USA. I am sure an American contributor can elucidate on which states have banned battery cage production, or sow stalls or veal crates?

 

[DrWazzock]

My only real point in this debate is that I think we can decide for ourselves as individuals what we will and won’t buy. No need for nanny state to decide for us. The state allows us to buy fags and booze. They are even labelled as being dangerous for all to be aware of the risks and we make an informed choice. So why not do the same with imported goods? Let the people decide. I buy imported nitrogen and all sorts of other imported products yet we as farmers want to force our customers to buy our products using legislation. Sounds more like some kind of communist command economy than real democracy, I’m afraid, and will go down like a lead balloon when certain factions get hold of it.

 

[Still Farming]

 

[marco]

View attachment 913760

Does anyone have a news article on this?

 

[Still Farming]

Does anyone have a news article on this?

Agriculture Bill defeat a ‘severe blow’ for animal welfare – BVA

Written by William Kellett The British Veterinary Association (BVA) has responded after a crucial clause that imposes a requirement for agricultural and food imports to the UK to meet domestic standards was voted down in the House of Commons as part of the passage of the Agriculture Bill. In...

thefarmingforum.co.uk

 

[Roger Perry]

My only real point in this debate is that I think we can decide for ourselves as individuals what we will and won’t buy. No need for nanny state to decide for us. The state allows us to buy fags and booze. They are even labelled as being dangerous for all to be aware of the risks and we make an informed choice. So why not do the same with imported goods? Let the people decide. I buy imported nitrogen and all sorts of other imported products yet we as farmers want to force our customers to buy our products using legislation. Sounds more like some kind of communist command economy than real democracy, I’m afraid, and will go down like a lead balloon when certain factions get hold of it.

Leaving EU and re-entering the "real" world is going to be tough for some industries.
Economics as always will dictate the outcome.............it does no one any favors to continue preaching false science to keep out products'
Trade agreements always come with winners and losers.

 

[Still Farming]

https://www.facebook.com/17050705902/posts/10158862542545903

 

[marco]

Leaving EU and re-entering the "real" world is going to be tough for some industries.
Economics as always will dictate the outcome.............it does no one any favors to continue preaching false science to keep out products'
Trade agreements always come with winners and losers.

It's not the real world though is it? The trump administration has has given over 30 billion dollars in support to the American farmers. America is also seeing one of the highest rates of bank foreclosures on farmers in history. It seems no matter where in the world you are farmers are the loosers

 

[Roger Perry]

It's not the real world though is it? The trump administration has has given over 30 billion dollars in support to the American farmers. America is also seeing one of the highest rates of bank foreclosures on farmers in history. It seems no matter where in the world you are farmers are the loosers

I do not take any federal money as we are not growing eligible crops, so if you grow beans, corn, rice etc good for you..I guess
I see foreclosures are up slightly but this is not the 80's................sorry, but I cannot agree with your sentiment that farmers are losers, in fact I look around my part of the world and I believe crop prices are holding ..........a neighbor growing just over 2000 acres of potatoes remarked on the strength in the market

 

[steveR]

View attachment 913760

My MP, sawdust brain that he is, voted for the Party line, as he always does.


To quote the esteemable Gilbert and Sullivan ...

I grew so rich that I was sent
By a pocket borough into Parliament.
I always voted at my party's call,
And I never thought of thinking for myself at all.

Although he did Vote against the TB cull...