how long should I compost in comparison?

[veganmonsta]

I've been googling forever but it seems the question isn't posted anywhere or give me the answer I'm looking for.

Basically I'm a vegan and I'm trying my best to stay away from animal manure as much as possible, I've been reading into human-manure for quite some time and according to a few people who do such a thing, they say 'composting' it will take half a year to 2 years... Now on the other hand I research how livestock manure and how long it should be composted, I keep getting the same idea.... So I'm left wondering, is it true that we truly don't need livestock manure as a form of compost when we can just use human manure? if the optimization is essentially the same as human manure's time of compost, there wouldn't be any need to exploit these animals any longer right? I kept googling 'how long should cow manure be composted' and everyone doesn't give a specific timeframe TO the cow manure but rather the same timeframe for every type of manure kind of answer so I don't know if cow manure is essentially the same as rabbit or horse manure.... I hope you guys get why I'm so confused.

But of course if it is true that non-human animals manure is definitely quicker at composting, I guess there isn't much of an argument to be had there and I should just grow my garden through animal manure in combination of human-manure because I want to reduce waste as much as possible.

The other question is have is that, considering if you google human average time to survive without food, its 3 weeks, how would a compost that takes half a year or more be a thing? If its averages of 3 weeks, we would die if we didn't get the right kind of compost in the right amount of time to grow our feeds and feed ourselves with it right?

New to farming, just didn't know where to find answers for these 2 questions I had so I created an account here to see any insightful answers, thank you!

 

[Northeastfarmer]

This thread stinks of manure......and it’s bull sh!t

 

[delilah]

you will be better off on the below site, go in their search engine and put 'humanure'

www.permaculture.org.uk

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Ruminant manure is "clean sh!t" in most respects, it is simply broken-down forage, this is why they have a 4-chambered digestive system to begin with: to process material high in cellulose, which we cannot.
Thus our own manure is less completely broken down and more concentrated/diverse (because of our diet of more concentrated and diverse foodstuffs) and so it usually harbours a lot more pathogens, viruses, per kg than animal manure.

In a home gardening context, it means that humanure MUST be composted for much longer, and more importantly at much higher temperatures for a longer period - so the end result is organic matter and a few nutrients - whereas the animal manure doesn't need this same degree of heating to be safe, and so it's much more "alive" in terms of beneficial bacteria and microbes. We likely also have a higher concentration of metals in ours, due to what's in our house!

Because the plants, ruminants, and soils co-existed for millenia and co-evolved, then most all of the soil microbes are present in the rumen as well - it's simply a big cycle of life in that respect - we humans don't have that same diverse flora in our microbiome and so our waste isn't necessarily beginning its composting process inside us, thus there's a time lag between when we defecate and when our fecal matter begins to decompose.

I house cattle in a tunnelhouse type of arrangement and it's basically central-heated as the woodchip floor (carbon source) is a metre deep and largely composting under them - to break down this Carbon requires Nitrogen, and these two need to be in balance in a good compost (hence the cow manure in layers of woodchip). It only really needs turned to heat again.

However the human diet is lower in Carbon compared to its Nitrogen content, this Nitrogen excess is a food source for bacterium, and this probably explains
1. Why we are driven by our stomachs
2. The extra time required to compost our waste
3. The extra time x heat required to "sterilise" our compost to make it safe for the soil we grow our food in - things like e. coli can persist well in compost until the N has been burnt up.

Hope this makes some sense?

 

[Man_in_black]

Basically I'm a vegan

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Come on lads, she's taken the risk of putting her head above the parapet in here and asked a serious question so at least give her the benefit of the doubt and a serious answer.

I think Pete has answered most aspects.

In modern society most humans are so scared of their own sh!t that it is all flushed out of sight using scarce drinking quality water and "treated" at sewage works. The logistics and carbon footprint of getting the treated solid waste from those plants back to the land are crazy.

Human sewage also has high levels of heavy metals, especially copper and can be damaging in high doses.

It can be made to work as shown by Japan but it is hard work and needs a huge change in society's attitude.

The whole process is much easier, and more natural, with grazing livestock.

 

[Werzle]

I've been googling forever but it seems the question isn't posted anywhere or give me the answer I'm looking for.

Basically I'm a vegan and I'm trying my best to stay away from animal manure as much as possible, I've been reading into human-manure for quite some time and according to a few people who do such a thing, they say 'composting' it will take half a year to 2 years... Now on the other hand I research how livestock manure and how long it should be composted, I keep getting the same idea.... So I'm left wondering, is it true that we truly don't need livestock manure as a form of compost when we can just use human manure? if the optimization is essentially the same as human manure's time of compost, there wouldn't be any need to exploit these animals any longer right? I kept googling 'how long should cow manure be composted' and everyone doesn't give a specific timeframe TO the cow manure but rather the same timeframe for every type of manure kind of answer so I don't know if cow manure is essentially the same as rabbit or horse manure.... I hope you guys get why I'm so confused.

But of course if it is true that non-human animals manure is definitely quicker at composting, I guess there isn't much of an argument to be had there and I should just grow my garden through animal manure in combination of human-manure because I want to reduce waste as much as possible.

The other question is have is that, considering if you google human average time to survive without food, its 3 weeks, how would a compost that takes half a year or more be a thing? If its averages of 3 weeks, we would die if we didn't get the right kind of compost in the right amount of time to grow our feeds and feed ourselves with it right?

New to farming, just didn't know where to find answers for these 2 questions I had so I created an account here to see any insightful answers, thank you!

I wouldnt want to risk human sewage on my veg because it contains to many nasties like antidepressants , antibiotics and birth control drugs. People use compost bought at the garden centre now unfortunatly , its not the 1960's anymore. Do some vegans smoke?

 

[Poorbuthappy]

I've been googling forever but it seems the question isn't posted anywhere or give me the answer I'm looking for.

Basically I'm a vegan and I'm trying my best to stay away from animal manure as much as possible, I've been reading into human-manure for quite some time and according to a few people who do such a thing, they say 'composting' it will take half a year to 2 years... Now on the other hand I research how livestock manure and how long it should be composted, I keep getting the same idea.... So I'm left wondering, is it true that we truly don't need livestock manure as a form of compost when we can just use human manure? if the optimization is essentially the same as human manure's time of compost, there wouldn't be any need to exploit these animals any longer right? I kept googling 'how long should cow manure be composted' and everyone doesn't give a specific timeframe TO the cow manure but rather the same timeframe for every type of manure kind of answer so I don't know if cow manure is essentially the same as rabbit or horse manure.... I hope you guys get why I'm so confused.

But of course if it is true that non-human animals manure is definitely quicker at composting, I guess there isn't much of an argument to be had there and I should just grow my garden through animal manure in combination of human-manure because I want to reduce waste as much as possible.

The other question is have is that, considering if you google human average time to survive without food, its 3 weeks, how would a compost that takes half a year or more be a thing? If its averages of 3 weeks, we would die if we didn't get the right kind of compost in the right amount of time to grow our feeds and feed ourselves with it right?

New to farming, just didn't know where to find answers for these 2 questions I had so I created an account here to see any insightful answers, thank you!

You are very brave coming on the livestock section of a farming forum and setting out your question like that! (Either that or spoiling for a fight, but the tone of your post is not like that so I'll go with brave).
Welcome btw.
Pete and Holwellcourtfarm have answered your points better than I could, and Werzle makes a valid point.
I would just like to point out that it is a misnomer to think that in being vegan you can avoid "exploiting" animals. The very process you are asking about (composting) requires the use of soil fauna to make it work. The most obvious and visible of these is the earthworm, but it is said a handful of healthy soil has more organisms in it than there are people on the planet. It's just that they're not as visible, or cute and cuddly, as the mammals we see around us. Disturbing the soil has an negative affect on this soil life. I read of 1 study that found 90% of soil life was killed off by a light cultivation.
My point is humans are a part of the ecosystem and we cannot avoid impacting upon it. We can however choose to work in harmony with it and there are a growing number of farmers seeking to do so. Nowhere in nature do ecosystems function without animals and even crop farmers are looking to bring animals back into there system to maintain a healthy soil and environment.

 

[beardface]

We use human poop in the form of Yorgrow. It's high in p and k so cheaper than bagged stuff and is a soil conditioner like standard manure. It bloody stinks though and to make it safe I think they basically have to sterilise it (heat it up). So it won't have the same bugs but is cheap fert.

We also have pig and cow poo in slurry and straw form. I know which product I'd rather use.

 

[michael N123]

View attachment 822038

Her name wasn’t enough she had to tell you twice

 

[Tim W]

We always had compost toilets until we moved into the village
We would compost for as long as it took to create a decent friable mix---usually a year or less
There is no set time for how long the composting process takes , it depends on what's in the compost, how you turn it, the weather & of course the organisms that will break it down
I have seen production systems free of animal manure in Germany (20+ years ago) they relied on lots of clover leys and some human waste

 

[Tim W]

There are good books on the subject ---''Humanure Handbook '' is one

 

[le bon paysan]

Dr Elaine Ingham has some videos for compost ideas, all made with green waste.
Look for her very early videos.

 

[Treg]

Look after the worms as if they are a reincarnation of your mother

 

[Charolais cattle]

Stomach turning

 

[topground]

@veganmonsta How do vegans deal with the stored product pests, rats mice, insects and birds that would otherwise eat the vegatables cereals and pulses before that food hit the plate?
There must be many millions of animals and insects killed before they do any damage to food.How is that reconciled by the vegan community?
When I have a steer killed for the freezer only one animal dies. During its life that steer has contributed to the improvement of soil through its manure and the habitat for a myriad of birds and insects.

 

[Werzle]

Stomach turning

Haha you dont fancy the il crap in your veg patch if you will crap in mine deal then or the crap for veg deal

 

[delilah]

There are good books on the subject ---''Humanure Handbook '' is one

another good book for anyone wanting to build their own system is 'the toilet papers' by Sim van der Ryn.

our loo with a view

 

[ThatsSomeSheep]

I’ll give you my theory - for what it’s worth:

A lot of soils will simply die if they are not fed animal manure. I cannot see there ever being enough “safe” human manure to replace the necessary organic matter to support arable agriculture long term.

Before any one has a pop, I do buy into cover cropping etc.

Doubtless there will be some science to back up my gut feeling (pardon the pun) and doubtless some to disprove.

That’s farming!

TSS

 

[Gulli]

The saying don't sh!t where you eat didnt come from nowhere