How Much Ground Do Agronomists Cover?

[T Hectares]

Maybe I'm being naive but I cant believe our serviced agronomist is on much of a commission.
Uses up old chem, fits to can sizes where able to, gives me choices of applications - with prices. If a (poor) crop doesn't warrant a fung, he won't recommend one. Happy enough to get germination tests etc on any hss. Can almost set your calendar to him walking around. Tells me he is walking round and reports back.
Maybe he is just a terrible salesman

Sounds like a very good agronomist

 

[tullah]

Mines been here for ten years and knows which fields need what herbicides.
Thouht of changing but then it will take the new guy a few years to get a grip.

 

[Steevo]

Many agronomists don’t walk a lot of the fields just blanket treat everything.
Sorry to say it but it’s the truth.

and strangely many farmers don’t walk the fields with the agronomist….always find that a strange one!

 

[Steevo]

Maybe I'm being naive but I cant believe our serviced agronomist is on much of a commission.
Uses up old chem, fits to can sizes where able to, gives me choices of applications - with prices. If a (poor) crop doesn't warrant a fung, he won't recommend one. Happy enough to get germination tests etc on any hss. Can almost set your calendar to him walking around. Tells me he is walking round and reports back.
Maybe he is just a terrible salesman

Sounds like an excellent agronomist!! Credit where it is due. One of the big firms?

 

[T Hectares]

and strangely many farmers don’t walk the fields with the agronomist….always find that a strange one!

I’m often surprised how many Arable farmers aren’t interested in agronomy !!

 

[kiwi pom]

Aye up,

Just wondering after 2-3 similar conversations with customers over the last couple of weeks.

One of them has an agronomist that looks after around 6000 acres and told him there is no way anybody could look after more and do it properly, but another says his agronomist looks after nearly treble that area.

These are cereal and OSR growers with maybe a smattering of spuds and AD crops thrown in.

Is agronomy a well paid career?

Cheers, Pete.

I think a lot depends on the role. My wife is an agronomist, says so on her business card, and the company she works for would advertise her position as 'Agronomist' if she left but she doesn't regularly crop walk all the acres or spend her time telling farmers what sprays to apply and when to do it, although she is out and about a lot from planting to harvesting.
It doesn't pay too badly either, salary plus company vehicle.
A lot of people on here are describing glorified salesmen, there can be more to it than that if you find the right role, including opportunities to travel.

 

[deleted user 837354]

Would depend very much on the nature of your area and the type of clients and cropping you had.

20,000 acres in big arable country would logistically be a breeze. Drive the tramlines in your truck and you'd be done. There is no way you can realistically 'walk' fields that are 100 acres or more each- I've tried it. Besides which you've generally made your mind up 30 yards into the field anyway. I used to walk some fields a lot more comprehensively, particularly if they were unknown or new to me. What are you going to do, Atlantis one tramline and not the other? Let's be sensible. Who is going to thank you for saving £4/acre on using no herbicide but have a dirty crop or headland instead?

The old service vs non-serviced thing is always trotted out, the fact is I could behave as an absolute crook if I chose to in either situation- the good old invisible man joke. Gimme a calendar and I reckon I could do a fair few recs from those alone without ever setting foot in a field.

The hard part comes when you have cereals, maize, beet, grass and spuds and godknows what to worry about from March to July. On a big combinable farm you can bundle up all the crops and look at them together.

You all know what your typical chemical spend would be per acre or hectare, multiply it up until you see what your man must reasonably be earning and then weigh it against your level of service?

Believe me, if all agronomists were on 100K I would have stayed doing it. The reality is that the whole selling to farmers thing is about numbers and service and I've lost count of the number of people who started out young working for a company and just get stuck in the 20K plus a car slot. Fudge that. There is more to life. The industry is consolidating and you are covering more and more geographical area per salesperson these days as there are fewer and fewer but larger farms. I've had my hand in it and I personally would not recommend it to the young college leavers of today. If you are going to be successful and in the 100K per year bracket then your vocation is going to basically take over your life. You have to decide if you enjoy agriculture enough really.

There are scores of jobs being advertised for salespeople selling all kinds of stuff to farmers, I get email alerts nearly around the clock but it's the same old story, 'we'll pay you more when you're selling more'. The net result is that sales reps are probably a dying breed and in this respect Clive is probably on the money in some ways.

 

[kiwi pom]

@deleted user 837354 Agronomist doesn't have to mean salesperson though, you're just focusing on the part you're familiar with which basically is a sales role.
Did you not look at getting into other areas of the job?

 

[neilo]

Maybe I'm being naive but I cant believe our serviced agronomist is on much of a commission.
Uses up old chem, fits to can sizes where able to, gives me choices of applications - with prices. If a (poor) crop doesn't warrant a fung, he won't recommend one. Happy enough to get germination tests etc on any hss. Can almost set your calendar to him walking around. Tells me he is walking round and reports back.
Maybe he is just a terrible salesman

That’s pretty well the opposite of my last serviced agronomist here. Never used old chem up unless forced, reccs were always worked so that they needed to ‘just’ go into another container, rates always fairly high, and lots of ‘pet’ products used. Always did a good job, but at a significant cost. The final straw was when a delivery of chems arrived the day before he came to walk the crops!

Now with an independent (which are rare round here for some reason) who uses cheaper chems, at lower rates, and uses up part drums to fit. Sourcing is no harder, as he orders it through a buying group and delivered next day (if he gets a backhander, it can only be a small one), and any unopened chems are easily returned.

I do have to chase him occasionally, but I appreciate I’m an arable tiddler, and only on his books as it fits I with other clients locally. On only 90-100 ac of cropping, and after paying his agronomy fee, I have been saving several £k a year on my agrochem bill. Somebody has been doing very well previously, and continues doing so locally!

 

[T Hectares]

Would depend very much on the nature of your area and the type of clients and cropping you had.

20,000 acres in big arable country would logistically be a breeze. Drive the tramlines in your truck and you'd be done. There is no way you can realistically 'walk' fields that are 100 acres or more each- I've tried it. Besides which you've generally made your mind up 30 yards into the field anyway. I used to walk some fields a lot more comprehensively, particularly if they were unknown or new to me. What are you going to do, Atlantis one tramline and not the other? Let's be sensible. Who is going to thank you for saving £4/acre on using no herbicide but have a dirty crop or headland instead?

The old service vs non-serviced thing is always trotted out, the fact is I could behave as an absolute crook if I chose to in either situation- the good old invisible man joke. Gimme a calendar and I reckon I could do a fair few recs from those alone without ever setting foot in a field.

The hard part comes when you have cereals, maize, beet, grass and spuds and godknows what to worry about from March to July. On a big combinable farm you can bundle up all the crops and look at them together.

You all know what your typical chemical spend would be per acre or hectare, multiply it up until you see what your man must reasonably be earning and then weigh it against your level of service?

Believe me, if all agronomists were on 100K I would have stayed doing it. The reality is that the whole selling to farmers thing is about numbers and service and I've lost count of the number of people who started out young working for a company and just get stuck in the 20K plus a car slot. Fudge that. There is more to life. The industry is consolidating and you are covering more and more geographical area per salesperson these days as there are fewer and fewer but larger farms. I've had my hand in it and I personally would not recommend it to the young college leavers of today. If you are going to be successful and in the 100K per year bracket then your vocation is going to basically take over your life. You have to decide if you enjoy agriculture enough really.

There are scores of jobs being advertised for salespeople selling all kinds of stuff to farmers, I get email alerts nearly around the clock but it's the same old story, 'we'll pay you more when you're selling more'. The net result is that sales reps are probably a dying breed and in this respect Clive is probably on the money in some ways.

One thing I’ll pick up on here is “walking” big fields, I’ve always walked them never drive !!
It’s quite simple really, walk through each soil type, any valleys or higher areas and to any areas that historically have issues, and sometimes i will spray a chunk or part of the field if needed but yes, mostly it will be a blanket rec for the field
I remember well a now retired old school distributor agro who always drove, a trainee of his told me once they used to pick up the farmer chat about shooting and cricket, whizz around the fields and home, once at T1 they did 5000 acres one day, went back and did the same Rec for the lot and chucked out over £100k of chem, that type of agronomy is hopefully what is ending, I think a diligent hardworking team player who works for the farming customer not the distributor and looks into soil health CS/elms etc will have a bright future, it’s a long time before algorithms and tech will replace that imho

 

[ajd132]

local farm uses an agronomist = corn gone lodged (badly)
my farm no agronomist = no lodged corn

Hero

 

[robs1]

Ok not law to the letter; but may as well be. Plus a requirement for your assurance

I think you need to be qualified to write recs for others but not to do your own, I belong to niab so have access to experts should I need to, let's face it the recs dont change much from year to year apart from new chems, since I started doing my own Ive said a lot of money and if you drive the sprayer it's easy to see any issues .

 

[Bogweevil]

I think anyone can make recommendations to others or indeed to themselves, but clearly your insurance or assurance scheme might require evidence of competence.:

Comprehensive non-statutory arrangements are in place to provide additional training to advisors in the form of a programme of Continuous Professional Development, and there are over 4,000 individuals following this. UK Crop Assurance schemes require that where an advisor, consultant or trade representative advises on pesticide usage on farm, they must be a member of the BASIS Professional Register. To employ an advisor who is not a member of the BASIS Professional Register is recorded as a major noncompliance and a ‘critical failure’ for schemes such as the Red Tractor assurance schemes for farms7 . This is also a key requirement for many retailer protocols. The requirement of membership of an industry recognised and supported continuing professional development (CPD) scheme are important in ensuring that an advisor's knowledge is kept up to date with current legislation, technology and methodology, and helps to meet the requirement that ‘guidance recognises that users need to take into account the appropriate level of pest, weed or disease control necessary in particular situations when deciding their control strategy. https://assets.publishing.service.g.../consult-nap-pesticides-document-20120730.pdf

Using pesticides safely
Always use pesticides as part of an integrated approach to pest, weed and disease management. Failure to use pesticides correctly can put people and the environment at risk.

• Always read and make sure you understand the instructions on the label and in any safety data sheet (SDS) or leaflet supplied with the product. Failure to follow these instructions may be an offence and may lead to prosecution.
• You must take all reasonable precautions to protect human health and the environment when storing, using and disposing of pesticides or if you cause or permit the use of pesticides. Government and industry guidance and advice can help you do this. It is not compulsory to follow this advice and guidance, but doing so help to demonstrate that you have been duly diligent in meeting your legal obligations.
• Anyone who applies a professional pesticide product must hold an officially-designated specified certificate. Details of officially-designated certificates are available on HSEs website (PDF) .
• Anyone who purchases a pesticide product must ensure that the end user holds a specified certificate.
• Pesticide application equipment, other than knapsacks and hand-helds, must have passed a test conducted by the National Sprayer Testing Scheme. Machinery must be calibrated and re-tested on a regular basis. The frequency of retesting depends on the type of machinery.
• Make sure you use any personal protective equipment identified in the instructions.
• Only spray when weather conditions are suitable to minimise the risk spray drift. The law requires that pesticide applications are confined to the target area.
• Try to avoid walking through treated areas.
• Do not eat, drink or smoke when applying pesticides.
• Wash off splashes from the skin and clothing immediately, and wash before eating, drinking, smoking or taking a rest break.
• Do not use faulty application equipment.
• Do not overfill sprayer tanks and secure all caps and lids before use.
• You must keep a record of all pesticide use.
• Report all suspected cases of environmental damage, poisoning or other adverse reactions, so they can be thoroughly investigated.

Agriculture - Pesticides

All pesticide advertisement, sale, supply, storage and use is controlled under current UK law. The decision to use pesticides should not be taken lightly.

www.hse.gov.uk

 

[deleted user 837354]

One thing I’ll pick up on here is “walking” big fields, I’ve always walked them never drive !!
It’s quite simple really, walk through each soil type, any valleys or higher areas and to any areas that historically have issues, and sometimes i will spray a chunk or part of the field if needed but yes, mostly it will be a blanket rec for the field
I remember well a now retired old school distributor agro who always drove, a trainee of his told me once they used to pick up the farmer chat about shooting and cricket, whizz around the fields and home, once at T1 they did 5000 acres one day, went back and did the same Rec for the lot and chucked out over £100k of chem, that type of agronomy is hopefully what is ending, I think a diligent hardworking team player who works for the farming customer not the distributor and looks into soil health CS/elms etc will have a bright future, it’s a long time before algorithms and tech will replace that imho

Agronomy is not rocket science. Let's be honest, it is the exact same job whether you are doing 1 acre or 10,000. IS the growth stage roughly right, yes/no? Ok then on goes the chosen fungicide program. Unless of course you are doing a different rec for each field?

There is fudge all difference between driving a field and walking it, either. I could drive tramlines all day and still do the same job.

 

[deleted user 837354]

@deleted user 837354 Agronomist doesn't have to mean salesperson though, you're just focusing on the part you're familiar with which basically is a sales role.
Did you not look at getting into other areas of the job?

Nah, to be honest, I enjoyed selling stuff at the time. I'm not sure independent agronomy would have that.

 

[T Hectares]

Agronomy is not rocket science. Let's be honest, it is the exact same job whether you are doing 1 acre or 10,000. IS the growth stage roughly right, yes/no? Ok then on goes the chosen fungicide program. Unless of course you are doing a different rec for each field?

There is fudge all difference between driving a field and walking it, either. I could drive tramlines all day and still do the same job.

You have better eye sight than me if you can see cotyledon weeds emerging from a vehicle or disease on lower leaves when sat in a seat
And the mess of a 4x4 driving everywhere, no thanks from me

Yes, often different recs for different fields, different varieties different fungicides, different weed spectrums different herbicides, some fields wild oats others none, that’s why I walk, that’s how it works for me, whizzing around trotting out a belt and braces program isn’t what I’d pay somebody the privilege for !!

 

[Bogweevil]

its an dying occupation really soon to be replaced by remote sensing, drones, satellites and AI algorithms

still a level of himan intervention required but i think it wont be long before an agronomist “walks” 100’s of thousands of acres

Agronomists will become 'compliance managers' and ponder data from soil maps, yield maps, AI powered drone surveillance, feedback from fieldwork robots to provide detailed proof of good practice.

It already happens in the glasshouse industry where the worlds best tomato agronomists use data from the greenhouse climate control computers anywhere in the world from their offices in Denmark, Holland or USA.

 

[Bury the Trash]

Hero

no , an anti one maybe.
Heroics is being told to use large amounts of chemical inputs including Nitrogen to make you crops 'look good.'

Now if i could get peas to stand reliably then i definitely would be,.. a proper hero.

 

[Clive]

Agronomy is not rocket science. Let's be honest, it is the exact same job whether you are doing 1 acre or 10,000. IS the growth stage roughly right, yes/no? Ok then on goes the chosen fungicide program. Unless of course you are doing a different rec for each field?

There is fudge all difference between driving a field and walking it, either. I could drive tramlines all day and still do the same job.

cereal agronomy is becoming a copy and paste job - it gets easier every year with less choice of actives

agronomist need to provide value beyond crop protection if they want to maintain a role these days

 

[ajd132]

no , an anti one maybe.
Heroics is being told to use large amounts of chemical inputs including Nitrogen to make you crops 'look good.'

Now if i could get peas to stand reliably then i definitely would be,.. a proper hero.

Agree!