How to stop using insecticides?

[yellow belly]

I have seen BYDV in years went we have put on an insecticide in the Autumn and none in other years when we haven't.. "ah well they must have come in during the mild spell in November/December/January"... I am becoming more and more convinced that we would be as well to pee in the sprayer as pour in the recommended insecticide for autumn aphids in cereals, flea beetle in rape or weevil or bruchid beetle in spring beans.. but its cheap says the agronomist... and probably cheaper to leave it out says I...

I stopped using it and found that there was little yield loss
so at only a low cost it still a couple of thousand a year
agronomist can’t take the risk of loosing a customer so the descision needs to be made by the farmer

 

[Still Farming]

Just don't buy , easy.

 

[Flat 10]

I find WB much more susceptible/suffers more apparent symptoms than WW. I didn’t spray last year on mid oct WB drilled and had 1ha almost total crop loss and presumably some less obvious yield loss in other areas. Most ww here emerges after the risk period and I never notice symptoms. I am much more nervous with barley though and monitor fairly carefully after T sum.

 

[Barleymow]

Did the barley yesterday, pre em on beans priority now might leave wheat alone no point making a mess

 

[Clive]

I have seen BYDV in years went we have put on an insecticide in the Autumn and none in other years when we haven't.. "ah well they must have come in during the mild spell in November/December/January"... I am becoming more and more convinced that we would be as well to pee in the sprayer as pour in the recommended insecticide for autumn aphids in cereals, flea beetle in rape or weevil or bruchid beetle in spring beans.. but its cheap says the agronomist... and probably cheaper to leave it out says I...

100% i think a lot are using insecticides simply to make themselves feel better.

In (rare) years ive seen bydv here i see even more in other farms crops locally that were sprayed …………

 

[davidroberts30]

100% i think a lot are using insecticides simply to make themselves feel better.

In (rare) years ive seen bydv here i see even more in other farms crops locally that were sprayed …………

Yes as once you spray you have no beneficials left .......

 

[farmerfred86]

How did you do it? Is it an instant cold turkey approach and hope for the best? Those of you who tell us you haven’t used insecticide for years, when you took on new land, did you treat it any different?

It’s a constant battle of wills with the agronomist here, he understands my strong desire to stop using them but it comes up every week about putting an insecticide on wheats.

Last year the OSR and beans were insecticide free and they’ll be the same this year. Barley variety this year is BYDV resistant/tolerant and most of the wheat was drilled mid Oct onwards so I’m happy with all that but there is some early Oct drilled wheat that is apparently a concern. It’s worth too much to accept crop failure so what would you do?

We stopped when we were told that bruchid beetle were resistant (in beans) and hated spraying anyway at that time of year. No difference at all come harvest. Rolled out the rest of the farm and haven't used any for a few years now.
Neighbour is a large organic farm who also points out that he has never really had any trouble with BYDV.
Certainly an increase in beneficials here but you have to be keen enough to go and look and see what's going on.
The right agronomist (or do your own agronomy) really helps.

 

[Huntstreet]

Thank you all for responding to my re-posting of the original post on this discussion page. It's been helpful to hear people's experiences. I am convinced no insecticides are the way to go for so many reasons, unless I can find an infestation while crop-walking on early drilled wheat. I am not going to put an on my later drilled WW. I will not go with the agronomist's initial recommendations of putting it on as a matter of course. Hopefully, on inspection, I won't find a reason to use an insecticide; if I do, it will be less and less over the next few years.

I will post here again next year to let you know how I got on.

 

[Hindsight]

Thank you all for responding to my re-posting of the original post on this discussion page. It's been helpful to hear people's experiences. I am convinced no insecticides are the way to go for so many reasons, unless I can find an infestation while crop-walking on early drilled wheat. I am not going to put an on my later drilled WW. I will not go with the agronomist's initial recommendations of putting it on as a matter of course. Hopefully, on inspection, I won't find a reason to use an insecticide; if I do, it will be less and less over the next few years.

I will post here again next year to let you know how I got on.

So which wheat are you going to treat? Drilling or emergence dates please. And geographical location. Reasonably precise please with altitude. Folk just saying they do not use insecticide on autumn sown cereals for aphids without providing more supporting information is not helpful. Thanks.

 

[ajd132]

So which wheat are you going to treat? Drilling or emergence dates please. And geographical location. Reasonably precise please with altitude. Folk just saying they do not use insecticide on autumn sown cereals for aphids without providing more supporting information is not helpful. Thanks.

Even niab say all you have to do is look for them, the other stuff is irrelevant.

 

[Hindsight]

Even niab say all you have to do is look for them, the other stuff is irrelevant.

I do not concurr, from my experience. But each to their own.

 

[Hard Graft]

went cold turkey a 5 years ago though only started growing WB this year for the first time so will find out

 

[ajd132]

I do not concurr, from my experience. But each to their own.

Why would you spray if they aren’t there?

 

[Phil P]

Not used any insecticides here for at least 5-6+ years now and seen no noticeable issues or impact on Yeilds.
Definitely seen a saving on chem spend and an increase in beneficials though. We just went cold turkey and stopped.
I was on serviced agronomy at the time and the agronomist would put it on the recommendation and I’d just leave it out and send it back. New agronomist knows not to bother put it on a recommendation.

 

[Huntstreet]

So which wheat are you going to treat? Drilling or emergence dates please. And geographical location. Reasonably precise please with altitude. Folk just saying they do not use insecticide on autumn sown cereals for aphids without providing more supporting information is not helpful. Thanks.

Hopefully none! I have the BYDV assist app (my first time using it), and I'm working off emergence dates. I have not used a tool like this before, so I have no idea whether it is a good one or not, but at least it gives you the DD days and perhaps a starting point on when to look (I look every time I'm out and about, but this gives you a little bit of science to as to when to look harder). I'm based in Kent near Canterbury (tropical Southeast) with varying altitudes.

 

[Flat 10]

Not used any insecticides here for at least 5-6+ years now and seen no noticeable issues or impact on Yeilds.
Definitely seen a saving on chem spend and an increase in beneficials though. We just went cold turkey and stopped.
I was on serviced agronomy at the time and the agronomist would put it on the recommendation and I’d just leave it out and send it back. New agronomist knows not to bother put it on a recommendation.

I don’t dispute this or others experiences but I’m not sure past performance is necessarily a guide to the future. My 1ha terrible bydv cost me 6t/ha which would have easily paid for an insecticide. I also tell the story of taking on some basically organic land and the first year the beet was hammered by flea beetle, not strictly relevant but an example of how quickly pests can out run beneficials…

 

[ajd132]

I don’t dispute this or others experiences but I’m not sure past performance is necessarily a guide to the future. My 1ha terrible bydv cost me 6t/ha which would have easily paid for an insecticide. I also tell the story of taking on some basically organic land and the first year the beet was hammered by flea beetle, not strictly relevant but an example of how quickly pests can out run beneficials…

It’s usually quite easy to go and look in ‘hot spot’ areas. Sheltered lower down in the valleys.
we had about half a hectare worth of bydv patch last year out of about 300ha and it was exactly where I thought it would be.

 

[Phil P]

I don’t dispute this or others experiences but I’m not sure past performance is necessarily a guide to the future. My 1ha terrible bydv cost me 6t/ha which would have easily paid for an insecticide. I also tell the story of taking on some basically organic land and the first year the beet was hammered by flea beetle, not strictly relevant but an example of how quickly pests can out run beneficials…

What is your annual spend on insecticide though? You need to work out whether it’s worth the risk of perhaps losing some yield on what may be a small acreage against the spend on chem. If you farm 50ha losing some yield on 1ha is a big loss. If you farm 1000ha, not so much!
Personally, the saving against blanket applications of insecticide is worth the risk for me.
As with most things in farming though everyone’s farm is different and I may have just been fortunate to not have any issue, I’m also a couple of hundred miles further north than you with cooler weather which probably helps.

Admittedly though beet is a whole different ball game and they need to be checked regularly for any signs of infestation. Not that there’s much chemistry left thats much help!

 

[robs1]

So which wheat are you going to treat? Drilling or emergence dates please. And geographical location. Reasonably precise please with altitude. Folk just saying they do not use insecticide on autumn sown cereals for aphids without providing more supporting information is not helpful. Thanks.

Imvho we should not be using insecticides at all, they are very ineffective but kill the beneficials and are another stick for environmentalists to beat us with. If I suffer a yield lose I will accept it as a price worth paying for seeing extra wildlife

 

[Flat 10]

What is your annual spend on insecticide though? You need to work out whether it’s worth the risk of perhaps losing some yield on what may be a small acreage against the spend on chem. If you farm 50ha losing some yield on 1ha is a big loss. If you farm 1000ha, not so much!
Personally, the saving against blanket applications of insecticide is worth the risk for me.
As with most things in farming though everyone’s farm is different and I may have just been fortunate to not have any issue, I’m also a couple of hundred miles further north than you with cooler weather which probably helps.

Admittedly though beet is a whole different ball game and they need to be checked regularly for any signs of infestation. Not that there’s much chemistry left thats much help!

I never said I blanket sprayed. No insecticides last year. Suffered an economic loss on winter barley. It was 1ha out of 19 really bad and a few more ha suffered. Agronomist wrote rec and I was going through with herb and Mn. I chose not to apply. Not drilled until approximately 7th October either.