Hunting goats and rams in Scotland....photo evidence

[Al R]

Ok fair enough - there is to a degree a different culture in the US - I have read articles about bowhunting & big game hunting which left me a lot less than impressed.

I would not be at all impressed by anyone shooting a horse unless it needed shooting, a feral goat would not bother me in the slightest since almost by definition they need shooting.

I stalk deer and there are three different aspects - one is the sport which involves dealing with an animal on its own terms and its own ground, the challenge being to get down to reliable range.

The second aspect is when the first is achieved and the rifle comes into the shoulder - that is humane despatch and nothing else.

The third aspect is the management which needs to be done.

Oh please tell me horses will soon become open license there’s far to many of them around sh1tting ragwort and destroying land..

 

[roscoe erf]

every second of every day someone somewhere is offended its becoming a national sport

now if only we could trophy hunt the offended win win

 

[brigadoon]

Don't they feed deer to get better heads?

It does happen but is not regarded as good practice - feeding of wild animals tends to lead to disease problems

Like Baronsdown and Tb

 

[Hilly]

every second of every day someone somewhere is offended its becoming a national sport

now if only we could trophy hunt the offended win win

Like is not enough for this, been thinking the same for years now wtf has gone wrong with people.

 

[roscoe erf]

Like is not enough for this, been thinking the same for years now wtf has gone wrong with people.

the internet im afraid its given every one a voice and an audience

 

[Filthyfarmer]

every second of every day someone somewhere is offended its becoming a national sport

now if only we could trophy hunt the offended win win

That would be called a manhunt............oops, personhunt

 

[roscoe erf]

That would be called a manhunt............oops, personhunt

see its easy isn't it

 

[honeyend]

I’m shocked this thread has got to 38 posts without anyone saying how blatantly obviously gorgeous she is!

It’s Americans and upper class for you..
People go to the eastern block to shoot driven boar etc, some go to Africa shooting, other Australia and Argentina.

Those that are against it, how many of you would go on a pheasant day (small bird day not a massive bird day)

I preferred the look of the sheep. Her clothing looked like 'trailer trash'.

 

[SLA]

To add some perspective -we had our old North Ronaldsay tup head mounted, unfortunately had to settle for the skull as his horns were so big would of required the shoulders mounting and that was a bit expensive, he was shot after some bar steward dog hamstrung him, also have some coloured skins made into rugs. Also got a nice set of pretty cow horns from a down cow.
Because these “trophies” weren’t collected from a “hunted” animal they’re acceptable?
Also recently seen a PETA add somewhere claiming milk has always been a symbol of white supremacy. They’re a bunch of nutters, people need to stop cow-towing to the vocal minority

 

[CollCrofter]

I wasn't going to comment on this...but.

First off, if there wasn't a photo of the girl with the Blackie tup then this thread wouldn't be 10 pages and counting for a start. Deer and wild goats are commonly shot and culled all over, that's what keeps the breeding herds/flocks healthy. Gamekeepers get paid for this so if someone can get a bit of money from Yanks or whoever and the animal is culled humanely then that isn't ever going to change and I don't see why anyone would be so against this. It's stock management, we all do it ourselves, probably more so!!

It's the Blackie tup that's the problem here. And the fact is, if you agree or not, that this is a PR disaster for the farming community... We are already in the bad books because of that BBC documentary (farsical as it was) and this is doing nothing to help how the public view us just now. We all know where that tup was destined for and we all know what we would have had to do... it's the manner of it being killed, it looks hellish on our industry and with times heading to drastic change we need all the public support we can get. Shooting DOMESTICATED farm animals is not the way to get that support.

'Dear Public, we plan on giving farmers millions and millions of your public money which could go to the NHS, Schooling, housing etc.. so they can continue sending baby calves days old abroad or even just locked in a pen and never see their mother.. and so they can rear domesticated animals so that gun happy yanks can come in and shoot 'wild' animals that would come to you from miles away if you shouted on them with a pale of food... Hope that's OK with you! (Because in the last month or so, that's all they have seen from our industry!!!)

I don't think so. We need to drastically change the way we are viewed or I'm telling you now, there will eventually be a major backlash against us (rightly or wrongly) and we won't have anyone to blame but ourselves. There are a lot of people and groups that are spreading the word, lies they may be, but the fact is that if you hear a lie too many time you can start to believe it yourself.

We need to start helping ourselves and showing the public that we at least have a heart!

 

[Macsky]

I wasn't going to comment on this...but.

First off, if there wasn't a photo of the girl with the Blackie tup then this thread wouldn't be 10 pages and counting for a start. Deer and wild goats are commonly shot and culled all over, that's what keeps the breeding herds/flocks healthy. Gamekeepers get paid for this so if someone can get a bit of money from Yanks or whoever and the animal is culled humanely then that isn't ever going to change and I don't see why anyone would be so against this. It's stock management, we all do it ourselves, probably more so!!

It's the Blackie tup that's the problem here. And the fact is, if you agree or not, that this is a PR disaster for the farming community... We are already in the bad books because of that BBC documentary (farsical as it was) and this is doing nothing to help how the public view us just now. We all know where that tup was destined for and we all know what we would have had to do... it's the manner of it being killed and even though it's easy for us to sit here and say 'well I don't see anything wrong with it', you're missing the point. It looks hellish on our industry and with times heading to drastic change we need all the public support we can get. Shooting DOMESTICATED farm animals is not the way to get that support.

'Dear Public, we plan on giving farmers millions and millions of your public money which could go to the NHS, Schooling, housing etc.. so they can continue sending baby calves days old abroad or even just locked in a pen and never see their mother.. and so they can rear domesticated animals so that gun happy yanks can come in and shoot 'wild' animals that would come to you from miles away if you shouted on them with a pale of food... Hope that's OK with you! (Because in the last month or so, that's all they have seen from our industry!!!)

I don't think so. We need to drastically change the way we are viewed or I'm telling you now, there will eventually be a major backlash against us (rightly or wrongly) and we won't have anyone to blame but ourselves. There are a lot of people and groups that are spreading the word, lies they may be, but the fact is that if you hear a lie too many time you can start to believe it yourself.

We need to start helping ourselves and showing the public that we at least have a heart!

Any suggestions?

 

[Fallowfield]

Anyone think this publicity might result in a rash of copy cat incidents

Any suggestions?

Make it a criminal offence to charge someone for allowing them to shoot/kill a domestic animal?

 

[CollCrofter]

Any suggestions?

Well there's the problem.

I would think being seen to be taking a stand against sport killing domesticated animals would be a start though

 

[Dave6170]

I would like to hear from the estate or gamekeeper/ghillie that let her shoot the blackie.
There are other photos on her instagram shooting huge red stags at the same place. They are not wild stags they look like park stags. Their antlers are huge compared to a wild animal.

 

[Macsky]

Well there's the problem.

I would think being seen to be taking a stand against sport killing domesticated animals would be a start though

I don’t know. Happy to be corrected, but there are accusations of ‘missing the point’, but I don’t think anyone here so far has said that this isn’t a bad image to be putting across, but the consensus seems to be that in the balance of things it wasn’t a bad way to go for the ram, and hasn’t done anyone any harm.

I’ve already said I don’t agree with the practice, but if we keep bowing to the knee jerk reactions of those that love to be outraged and signal their virtue over people doing things things they know absolutely nothing about, then we will end up in deep trouble! What’s will the next outrage of the day that needs legislating against be?

What we need is a level headed voice to explain the truths, step up BASC, SGA, NFU etc etc.

The biggest problem I think is that supposing we had that voice, it would be largely ignored by the lazy, agenda driven, increasingly opinionated mainstream media.

 

[CollCrofter]

I don’t know. Happy to be corrected, but there are accusations of ‘missing the point’, but I don’t think anyone here so far has said that this isn’t a bad image to be putting across, but the consensus seems to be that in the balance of things it wasn’t a bad way to go for the ram, and hasn’t done anyone any harm.

I’ve already said I don’t agree with the practice, but if we keep bowing to the knee jerk reactions of those that love to be outraged and signal their virtue over people doing things things they know absolutely nothing about, then we will end up in deep trouble! What’s will the next outrage of the day that needs legislating against be?

What we need is a level headed voice to explain the truths, step up BASC, SGA, NFU etc etc.

The biggest problem I think is that supposing we had that voice, it would be largely ignored by the lazy, agenda driven, increasingly opinionated mainstream media.

I fully agree with you.

I wasn't really aiming the 'missing the point' to anyone specific, I just meant anyone who may read this in general.. edited post accordingly

I knew I didn't want to get involved with this

 

[Fallowfield]

I don’t know. Happy to be corrected, but there are accusations of ‘missing the point’, but I don’t think anyone here so far has said that this isn’t a bad image to be putting across, but the consensus seems to be that in the balance of things it wasn’t a bad way to go for the ram, and hasn’t done anyone any harm.

I’ve already said I don’t agree with the practice, but if we keep bowing to the knee jerk reactions of those that love to be outraged and signal their virtue over people doing things things they know absolutely nothing about, then we will end up in deep trouble! What’s will the next outrage of the day that needs legislating against be?

What we need is a level headed voice to explain the truths, step up BASC, SGA, NFU etc etc.

The biggest problem I think is that supposing we had that voice, it would be largely ignored by the lazy, agenda driven, increasingly opinionated mainstream media.

Colin Shedden of the BASC was interviewed on Radio Scotland news last night.

So perhaps the mainstream media aren't as lazy, agenda driven, or increasingly opinionated as you fear.

It's a pity you missed it. He talked some sense, though perhaps pulled his punches a bit in relation to the shooting of the ram albeit that he found it inappropriate, distasteful and unsporting and lacking in respect for the quarry species.

 

[spark_28]

I would like to hear from the estate or gamekeeper/ghillie that let her shoot the blackie.
There are other photos on her instagram shooting huge red stags at the same place. They are not wild stags they look like park stags. Their antlers are huge compared to a wild animal.

Elk in them? ive heard that before

 

[Ffermer Bach]

My post wasnt entirely aimed at yours. But farmers on this thread have basically condoned it, which i find bizarre. firstly I for one would not want one of my animals sent off to a field only to be hunted by some egotistical yank moron and secondly like you said theres enough ammunition for AR groups, why give them more?

I find it hard to understand that anyone would gain pleasure from hunting a ram, and as I have got older I don't actually want to shoot anything (unless it is vermin) however, if I step back and think of things morally, I can't find a difference between shooting an animal in the wild and farming it (to be killed in an abattoir), in fact I think being shot in the field is a far better end. The other thing we have to bear in mind is, if we all became "vegan", it would be far worse for our natural environment (thinking of farming without ruminants helping to sequestrate carbon and conserve soil) and using non renewable resources to fertilise crops, so I do think on balance people who viscerally hate any form of hunting are virtue signalling.

 

[Fallowfield]

I find it hard to understand that anyone would gain pleasure from hunting a ram, and as I have got older I don't actually want to shoot anything (unless it is vermin) however, if I step back and think of things morally, I can't find a difference between shooting an animal in the wild and farming it (to be killed in an abattoir), in fact I think being shot in the field is a far better end. The other thing we have to bear in mind is, if we all became "vegan", it would be far worse for our natural environment (thinking of farming without ruminants helping to sequestrate carbon and conserve soil) and using non renewable resources to fertilise crops, so I do think on balance people who viscerally hate any form of hunting are virtue signalling.

Surely there's a difference between raising a domestic animal to provide food and raising a domestic animal so that someone can get enjoyment from killing it?