I told you so !

[Bruce Almighty]

How does USA justify its behaviour towards the Mexican people? Governments are one thing, and people are another.

I honestly don’t know. The programme was eye opening (even though I was half asleep!)

 

[Ffermer Bach]

I saw the programme and share your views on the hypocrasy of the ruling classes (not all of them) while carbon emissions increase.

I also agree with you on the stupidity of the cheap food policy, which is really the corporate food system's agenda.

I have cattle on my farm for one main reason which is to get more carbon into the soil, it also simplifies my rotation and reduces risk to my business. However, clearing a bit of rainforest to put cattle on will result in less carbon sequestration not more, and more methane from the cattle too. So that argument needs explaining properly.

Where we might disagree however is the idea that the continuing expansion of farming is a good idea. I think we should farm less land, it isn't doing anybody any good except for the big suppliers at these levels of production, Just look at what habitual farming has done to that land in Iraq. 3000 years ago the Sahara desert was green. Think how much carbon and biodiversity that would involve.

I keep thinking we should at least plant more trees between fields as a start.

I think if you look at Alan Savory's work, we need more cattle to regreen the brittle environments

 

[Bruce Almighty]

There are a lot less cattle around here than there used to be.
The main reason for that is TB & all the hassle that goes with it.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

There are a lot less cattle around here than there used to be.
The main reason for that is TB & all the hassle that goes with it.

well, that is another example of the laws of unintended consequences isn't it.

 

[glasshouse]

Let's just go back to Iraq for a minute. It's in the "fertile crescent" where the experts reckon farming began. Not so fertile now is it? So what's caused the loss of fertility there?

Serious question.

Serious question?
The middle east was much colder and wetter during the ice age which ended ten k years ago, thats when iraq was the fertile crescent

 

[C.J]

Serious question?
The middle east was much colder and wetter during the ice age which ended ten k years ago, thats when iraq was the fertile

That's right Milakovich cycles changed the earth's orbit , melting the 3km thick Glaciers over North America , northern Europe and northern Asia......Deserts formed in the Sahara,the middle east,the Gobi as well as south Africa and Australia in the southern hemisphere.

This idea that the Saraha was caused by overgrazing is just more vegan anti livestock farming cr4p , believed by the feeble minded , who think man alters the climate, not natural forces.

 

[glasshouse]

That's right Milakovich cycles changed the earth's orbit , melting the 3km thick Glaciers over North America , northern Europe and northern Asia......Deserts formed in the Sahara,the middle east,the Gobi as well as south Africa and Australia in the southern hemisphere.

This idea that the Saraha was caused by overgrazing is just more vegan anti livestock farming cr4p , believed by the feeble minded , who think man alters the climate, not natural forces.

Thankyouevery days a school day

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

I think if you look at Alan Savory's work, we need more cattle to regreen the brittle environments

Yes I know but not chopping down more rain forest.

That's right Milakovich cycles changed the earth's orbit , melting the 3km thick Glaciers over North America , northern Europe and northern Asia......Deserts formed in the Sahara,the middle east,the Gobi as well as south Africa and Australia in the southern hemisphere.

This idea that the Saraha was caused by overgrazing is just more vegan anti livestock farming cr4p , believed by the feeble minded , who think man alters the climate, not natural forces.

Being critical of overgrazing is not vegan anti livestock farming. Feeble minded?

 

[Ffermer Bach]

Yes I know but not chopping down more rain forest.

Being critical of overgrazing is not vegan anti livestock farming. Feeble minded?

I agree, of course we should not be cutting down old growth forests, I think the grazing thing is partly about the rest phase and how long it is, set stocking causes both overgrazing and undergrazing, both are equally damaging.

 

[Bury the Trash]

When I wrote the post on Friday night I was originally going to call it "what a load of b0ll0cks" because that was my opinion of the politicians hot air, it's previously been mentioned on this thread as "Crap26"
I changed it because I thought the language was too coarse, maybe I should have called it "Mark my words"

Edit
Chris F's post "Am I missing something" seems to be along similar lines to mine

It was on BBC2 not You Tube, anybody can upload onto You Tube, the BBC is not so easy.
It's been suggested that Britain will be a very important food producing country in future if some countries become too hot

You're clutching at straws, you know nothing about my family's farming business. But if you did, you'd know that most of it is on rented or contract farmed land where the owner gets the subsidy, not us.

I'm a practical person too, I milk our cows most of the time, I also spend a lot of time doing sheep work and also do a fair bit of tractor driving. I deal with the paperwork in the evenings.
Things must be very different in your area if you haven't been encouraged to plant trees. 2 of our landlords are tree planting mad.

there's changes going on all the time best thing to do is learn how to adapt all the time, not easy i know but necessary to survive there's plenty of other farmers have had to diversify /just do other things to earn a living .
the constant complaining about it wont help beyond a certain point, seems to be a stuck record on here atm and wont help look into new ways and means.

 

[glasshouse]

Thankyou

Yes I know but not chopping down more rain forest.

Being critical of overgrazing is not vegan anti livestock farming. Feeble minded?

the climate didnt change because of overgrazing as you implied

 

[Bruce Almighty]

there's changes going on all the time best thing to do is learn how to adapt all the time, not easy i know but necessary to survive there's plenty of other farmers have had to diversify /just do other things to earn a living .
the constant complaining about it wont help beyond a certain point, seems to be a stuck record on here atm and wont help look into new ways and means.

Please see post 78.

We also have diversification activities going on.

 

[Bury the Trash]

Please see post 78.

ok ,have read it,

We also have diversification activities going on.

well with all that going on why have you a grouse ,seems you're well able to move on and adapt.

That's a lot more than we have used to build our own house and bring up a family on, same as a lot of the general population s well i suspect, tbf i do moan about stuff sometimes but im not sure its helped oh and im a tenant as well on part, atm they are happy to take the rent including the sub from us,i like farming it though and its good productive ground .
our average field size is around 6 acres.

Theres no need for anyone to say i told you so ,its small minded.

 

[Wisconsonian]

Serious question?
The middle east was much colder and wetter during the ice age which ended ten k years ago, thats when iraq was the fertile crescent

I don't know about the middle east in general, or the sahara, but the west coast of Saudi Arabia was wooded and productive grazing within our lifetimes according to a documentary. Camels, goats and chainsaws caused the area to become desert. I have no doubt goats could have been primarily responsible for turning the middle east and sahara into deserts.

Would you believe that native americans altered the continent by burning? or eliminating large mammals which kept the forests back and extended snowcover?

 

[Bruce Almighty]

ok ,have read it,

well with all that going on why have you a grouse ,seems you're well able to move on and adapt.

That's a lot more than we have used to build our own house and bring up a family on, same as a lot of the general population s well i suspect, tbf i do moan about stuff sometimes but im not sure its helped oh and im a tenant as well on part, atm they are happy to take the rent including the sub from us,i like farming it though and its good productive ground .
our average field size is around 6 acres.

Theres no need for anyone to say i told you so ,its small minded.

When I left college in 88 we had 170 acres. Today my brother and I are farming 1100. But that’s not the point & I’m not blowing my own trumpet, we’ve had lucky breaks.

“I told you so” at the end of the original post was part of a hypothetical question. You are taking it out of context.
I don’t believe we should be planting trees on or re-wilding good land when it will be needed for food production.
Equally I’m sure you must agree that trying to convince the public that cattle farming is bad will not help us to be sustainable. Arable Organic farming for instance is very difficult without livestock manures.

 

[glasshouse]

I don't know about the middle east in general, or the sahara, but the west coast of Saudi Arabia was wooded and productive grazing within our lifetimes according to a documentary. Camels, goats and chainsaws caused the area to become desert. I have no doubt goats could have been primarily responsible for turning the middle east and sahara into deserts.

Would you believe that native americans altered the continent by burning? or eliminating large mammals which kept the forests back and extended snowcover?

More like the climate changed and goats were all that could live there, and they made it worse

 

[Wisconsonian]

Fair enough, I wasn't there. Nor do I remember the north american tundra before man eliminated the mastodon, giant rhino and large predators.

 

[Cab-over Pete]

When I left college in 88 we had 170 acres. Today my brother and I are farming 1100. But that’s not the point & I’m not blowing my own trumpet, we’ve had lucky breaks.

“I told you so” at the end of the original post was part of a hypothetical question. You are taking it out of context.
I don’t believe we should be planting trees on or re-wilding good land when it will be needed for food production.
Equally I’m sure you must agree that trying to convince the public that cattle farming is bad will not help us to be sustainable. Arable Organic farming for instance is very difficult without livestock manures.

You’re not being entirely honest there @Bruce Almighty

By that I mean you’ve also had some unlucky breaks too, so with difficult situations to cope with I think you’re all doing better than you think you are.

I can tell the rest of you that the OP and his brother are very good farmers with many great assets, one of which is modesty.

 

[Hilly]

Second homes should be nationalised.
Berlin has just voted for that, to expropriate rented flats from landlords

Berlin voted for Hitler dosnet make it right !

 

[Hilly]

Can't see how they will carry on controlling if there is not enough carrot, folk will say sod it not worth the hassle!

Carrot is used now , easily control with a stick ,